Lapua 220 Russian??

R

Richard

Member
Has there been any more news about it? Is all the new blue box brass a problem or just a certain lot?
I have plenty of gold box but I do make brass for others and for the time it takes to make I want good stuff.
I would try Norma but that isn't going to work with .270nk chambers.

I have used blue box from a couple years ago and it's fine. But made up the last box today.

Richard Brensing
 
Blue vs gold box Lapua cases

Hi Richard, there's nothing 'wrong' with the blue box brass, however those of us who shoot it all the time do notice a difference in the tightness of the primer pockets. The Lapua reps say nothing has changed with the brass--they say it's because we shoot hot loads and expect the brass to perform miracles--but right now I'm shooting an older lot of Lapua bought from a retired shooter and the primers still seat tight after many reloads.

But I emphasize there's nothing wrong with the blue box brass. Lapua still makes the best brass for extreme accuracy. Check the equipment lists for the top shooters winning big events and you'll see Lapua 220 Russian tops the leader board.

When the primer pockets get loose you need to discard the brass. Blow-back around the primer will pit your bolt face. Eventually the primers won't hold in the case. That's no different today than twenty years ago--the guys pushing the pressure curve expanded the case heads with gold box brass just the same as today with blue box brass.

Don't be scared of the blue box. The best shooters are winning with it today. Hope this helps.

Vera
 
Still waiting

Richard said:
Has there been any more news about it? Is all the new blue box brass a problem or just a certain lot?
I have plenty of gold box but I do make brass for others and for the time it takes to make I want good stuff.
I would try Norma but that isn't going to work with .270nk chambers.

I have used blue box from a couple years ago and it's fine. But made up the last box today.

Richard Brensing
Click to expand...

Richard,

I have sent gold box and blue box 220 Russian off for testing. Lapua says that they have made no changes in the alloy, but I will believe this when I see the results. All Lapua 220 Russian brass is made to high quality standards, but many shooters swear that the gold box will hold up to higher pressures. If the zinc content is higher in the gold box brass, it would be able to handle pressure better. As long as you keep the newer blue box alloy away from the top 3450 fps node, it should hold up okay. If you shoot the top nodes, I would keep all of the gold box for yourself, and use blue box for the brass you make for others. If you choose to use gold box for any of your customers, right now it brings a premium.

If Lapua would make brass for my old 30-30, I wouldn't have a problem with the blue box at all, or any other color.

Michael
 
Over the years I've prepped thousands of pieces of Lapua Russians. The primer pockets and flash holes arnt as uniform as the older ones. My pocket uniformer doesn't clean up some of the new ones at all. I feel like the gold box stuff is different but is it better that I can't prove.
 
Michael,

When do you think you get the results? I'm not in the panic mode (yet) over this issue.
And the gold box is for my use only. I know how good it is and no way is it going out the door.

As I said earlier, the blue box I had was really good stuff also and had no issues. I would like to know what the lot# is on the loose primer stuff.

I know it's just not a "made up internet thing" about the pockets. One of the guys I build for got some of it.
He doesn't shoot the high node but right at 3350. After 3 firings the primers would almost go in with your thumb. He etched his bolt face with that stuff.

Richard
 
Check my post and answers of 12-11-2016, 09:25 AM entitled Lapua .220 brass enlarged primer pockets.
It has been reported directly to Lapua and we're waiting to hear from them. I noted their reply in the posts of this thread but we did give them 3 cases afflicted with this congenital disease so... we're waiting, since August, when we met with the Lapua representative in France during an international competition.
Personally, I have never had that problem and I am still using old Lapua cases from carton boxes; everything I see and hear about the 'new' Lapua makes me want to get Norma brass, if price has increased quite a lot and quality has dropped by the same token... I understand paying good money for my brass but it'd better be good brass.
 
Richard said:
When do you think you get the results? I'm not in the panic mode (yet) over this issue.
And the gold box is for my use only. I know how good it is and no way is it going out the door.

As I said earlier, the blue box I had was really good stuff also and had no issues. I would like to know what the lot# is on the loose primer stuff.

I know it's just not a "made up internet thing" about the pockets. One of the guys I build for got some of it.
He doesn't shoot the high node but right at 3350. After 3 firings the primers would almost go in with your thumb. He etched his bolt face with that stuff.
Richard
Click to expand...

Richard,

It is suspected that all of the blue box alloy is softer than the older gold box. I wish I could give you some kind of idea of when the testing will be completed. Just before Jason (the tester) received the samples, someone where he works caused damage the the sensor, and it is having to be replaced. This can be followed on the accurate shooter forum, under main forum, then under blue box alloy. Sorry for the delays. You are wise not to let any of the gold box out the door. I had heard the same thing about the 3350 fps to 3380 fps node also loosening primer pockets. Durward Wofford is shooting the 3250 fps node with success. If the blue box alloy brass can not handle loads greater than the 3250 fps node without loosening primers, then it doesn't handle pressure any better than the older USA PPC brass. I used to run the USA PPC brass at around 3250 fps with 68gr. Tucker bullets and about 28gr. of H322 back in the mid 90's. That load shot 2's and 3's at 200 yards.

Michael
 
G & V Carter said:
[...]The Lapua reps say nothing has changed with the brass--they say it's because we shoot hot loads and expect the brass to perform miracles--but right now I'm shooting an older lot of Lapua bought from a retired shooter and the primers still seat tight after many reloads.

But I emphasize there's nothing wrong with the blue box brass. Lapua still makes the best brass for extreme accuracy. Check the equipment lists for the top shooters winning big events and you'll see Lapua 220 Russian tops the leader board. [...]
Click to expand...

With respect, many shooters, particularly in the US, shot very hot loads without any problems (maybe a split neck occasionnally) for years until the enlarged primer pocket syndrome appeared at least 4 years ago. So, yes, we shot hot loads and, yes, the brass performed miracles. But it doesn't any longer, at least not consistently and I'll be very interested in the results of the analysis that Richard has initiated.
 
Lapua 220 Russian

P. Octo said:
With respect, many shooters, particularly in the US, shot very hot loads without any problems (maybe a split neck occasionnally) for years until the enlarged primer pocket syndrome appeared at least 4 years ago. So, yes, we shot hot loads and, yes, the brass performed miracles. But it doesn't any longer, at least not consistently and I'll be very interested in the results of the analysis that Richard has initiated.
Click to expand...


LAPUA 220 Russian cases down the drain?

I have witnessed in Europe with six different shooters 6 PPC cases not holding primers (Federal 205M) after 2/3 shots (???)!
This has been happening for a while now in particular with the blue box production marked 16 (2016) and 17 (2017). Lapua 220 Russian has been for the past 24 years THE very best case available and without its quality and strength the 30 + grains of N133 currently used in our rifles couldn't be used. Any of this in the USA?

I have posted this about a couple of months ago and couldn't get a clear answer. Last month two of my team mates to the WBC 14 in NZ prepared each 50 Lapua 220 Russian cases (blue box) to take to the World Shoot. After the second fire forming shot most of the primer pockets were already loose. I keep ready that "nothing has changed in the manufacture of the Lapua 220 Russian cases..." but the fact is that the cases don't behave like they use to and it becomes a serious burden to be obliged to turn and form cases for every match and pray that they will last until the last relay. Luckily for my friends one of their friends gave them a box of the gold card boxes and they could prepare the cases to attend the WBC 14 in NZ and guess what ? After 3 practice days, 4 WU and 4 complete matches plus the 10 shot 200 meter match the cases are still in good shape and ready to go to the next one! So no change in the blue box Lapua 220 Russian cases? From my side I already ordered Norma 6 PPC brass.
 
If it wasn't such a big deal

to change over to a smaller nk dia I would consider Norma. My issue is that it took alot of time to get my .270 nk stuff the way I wanted it. My sizer and seater are hand made and it was a PITA to get them right. I'm ok for now but I guess later on I might have remake everything if the lapua really is a problem.
500 cases of lapua showed up today ups so we will see what happens when I get them made and out the door.

Richard
 
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