Jerry stiller was right !!!!!!!!

1+ for the engineer

Gene Beggs said:
Read more on, 'News From The Tunnel, Barrel Indexing.'
Click to expand...

Don't you hate it when people intuitively understand things that you had to work hard at to come up with. I love the way you guys share knowledge. I still need to see some pics of this thing to understand it. tiny
 
Gene, Jerry-

Since this is a new thread, tell me if I get one of the 15 letters or a phone call. I'm not being one of the funny people, few people even understand my atempt at humor, even less appreciate it.
Am I even close? I got busted for about fifty- millionths, plus or minus. Actual pitch @ 18 tpi = .055556 .
If I'm that far off, maby I should answer Steve P.'s question about the 6 ppc's dominance. But then that also would just be my opion, probably wrong, certainly would be contradicted.

YOU stirred the pot Gene, give us some answers about the last trip out to the shop, or the whole story prefferable.
Or forever be known as the SPOON.
Steve Moore
 
Stephen B Moore said:
I got busted for about fifty- millionths, plus or minus. Actual pitch @ 18 tpi = .055556 .

Steve Moore
Click to expand...

Correct, but 0.0555556 is even closer! :eek: Isn't math humor great? :)

Cheers,
Keith

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world: those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Stephen Perry said:
Gene
What do you think contributes to the dominance the 6PPC has had for group shooters over the last 25 years. Can you give physical characteristics that make it the cartridge that a vast amount of shooters choose for their short range BR gun.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...


Steve,

There are a number of reasons the 6PPC cartridge dominates short range benchrest. One is the fact that the Sporter category requires a bullet larger than .224. The obvious choice; a 6mm/.243.

When the PPC was in the planning stages, the goal was to drive 68 grain 6mm bullets at 3200 fps using 322, 748, and other such powders. By 'improving' the 220 Russian case, internal capacity was increased by approximately two grains and the rest is history.

The 22PPC proved overbore and its full potential as a benchrest round was not realized until shooters began shortening it by .080 to .125.

The case capacity of the 6PPC proved ideal when used with the powders of the day and shooters were quick to realize that with one 6PPC Sporter, they could compete heads up in all three bag gun categories. For many years there was little experimentation with other cartridges.

Some believe there is something magic about the 6PPC and that if you change ANYTHING the magic will be lost. Nonsense! The 6PPC is nothing more than an 'improved' 220 Russian, necked up to 6mm. There is no magic in a 30 degree shoulder or minimum taper body.

Parker O. Ackley was responsible for introducing the shooting world to the so called 'improved' cartridges. His case design called for a .010 per inch taper in the body and a 40 degree shoulder. With the exception of the 30 degree shoulder, the PPC cartridge is nothing more than an Ackley improved 220 Russian.

It is no secret that I do not favor 'improving' standard cartridges. This is a personal opinion but I don't like the look and I don't like the feeding problems associated with such rounds. It would be hard to describe, but some things just 'look right.' I'll never forget a friends comment when I first showed him the no-turn 220 Beggs cartridge. He's an old cowboy; raised on a ranch near Uvalde, TX and now flies the Airbus A320 for US Airways. He held the little round up and said, "Cute lil' cotridge."

The original 220 Russian case from which the PPC was developed was made by Sako. It was a balloon head design and would not withstand anywhere near the pressures we use today with the Lapua case. Once the supply of original Sako cases dried up, there was a period of time in which brass was hard to find and some were charging as much as $3.00 to $4.00 a piece. :mad: Enter the Sako 6PPC USA case.

For a time, Sako made the 6PPC USA case that required no preparation other than neck turning. They were good cases and very convenient to use but they introduced a problem that plagues us even today. The original Sako 220 Russian case measured .4380 right in front of the extractor groove and all of the original reamers for the PPC were ground for that dimension. The Sako 6PPC USA case measured .4410. This caused a lot of problems for a few years and even today we still find chambers that measure 4380 to 4390 at the pressure ring.

Most commercial sizing dies are designed for the 6PPC USA case. They may or may not work with the 6PPC made from the Lapua brand 220 Russian case which measures 4400 at the pressure ring. It all depends on the reamer. My 6PPC reamer measures 4430 at the pressure ring and 4310 at the shoulder.

When I began teaching benchrest, I encountered so many mismatches between chamber and die, I decided to develope my own line of cartridges with standardized chambers, sizing and seater dies. The 220 and 6mm Beggs cartridges have proven themselves the equal of anything in use on the 100/200 yard firing line. The 6Beggs now holds the unlimited record for five shots at 300 yards, .355 set by Jim McGowin this year at St Louis.

When the Lapua 220 Russian case was introduced, it opened up a whole new world to the benchrest crowd. It is so well made it is in a class by itself and withstands pressures far in excess of the norm. The Lapua 220 Russian case was chosen as the basis for the 220 and 6mm Beggs cartridges. The only change being the radius at the junction of the neck and shoulder. The standard 220 Russian chamber uses a .125 radius at this point; the Beggs chamber, .060. The Beggs cartridge holds two grains less powder than the PPC but generates the same velocity. Accuracy is limited only by the quality of barrels and bullets.

With the powders of today, there is no need to 'improve' the Lapua 220 Russian case; it's perfect just as it comes from the box. With its 21.5 degree shoulder and .040 body taper, it feeds and extracts like butter.

In view of the fact that the Beggs cartridge holds two grains less powder than the PPC many have expressed concerns about muzzle velocity. In the 220 Beggs with 52 grain bullets, from a 22 inch barrel, my standard load of Hodgdon's Benchmark produces 3615. My standard load of Hodgdon's H4198 in the 6 Beggs using 68 grain bullets averages 3360 and I can easily get 3400. I think that's adequate; don't you? :D

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
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Well now wait a minute, Keith-

My calculator only goes 6 didgets to the right of the decimal point. I should have been moore exact!!
BUT you ripped my heart out and kicked it around in the sand when you didn't bust two of the other posters on the 28 tpi= .035714 ", Not .037", Not .038".
I understand the base "10" thing, but Binary [base two]? I am NOT a Switch-Hitter!!!
Hope you, Boyd, Jerry, and Al have a sense of humor.
I stand corrected.
Steve Moore
 
Gross error by beggs

Since Stephen Moore was so forthright in admitting to his gross mathematical miscalculation of 50 millionths of an inch, I felt obligated to inform our readers of a serious mistake on my part. :eek:

In one of my posts on "News From The Tunnel, Barrel Indexing," I said something to the effect of,

"The only tools necessary to make adjustments at the range using my barrel indexing system are a barrel vise and action wrench."

I hope my irresponsible statement has not caused anyone too much inconvenience, but,,, in addition to the action wrench and barrel vise you will also need a 1/8 inch allen wrench.

Sorry :eek: ;) :D

Later guys :D

Gene Beggs
 
Sorry Gene, that slip up is total unforgivable!!! I’m appalled…… ;)


While most of the data in “the tunnel” thread goes over the top of me, I have sort of got a handle on it. :rolleyes:

I’ve printed the whole thread and given it to 2 friends who have a better understanding to comment and explain the finer points to me

Thanks not only for all your(s) work, but also sharing your ideas -- John
 
JohnM said:
Sorry Gene, that slip up is total unforgivable!!! I’m appalled…… ;)


While most of the data in “the tunnel” thread goes over the top of me, I have sort of got a handle on it. :rolleyes:

I’ve printed the whole thread and given it to 2 friends who have a better understanding to comment and explain the finer points to me

Thanks not only for all your(s) work, but also sharing your ideas -- John
Click to expand...


Thank you John. Much appreciated. :)

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Stephen B Moore said:
My calculator only goes 6 didgets to the right of the decimal point. I should have been moore exact!!
BUT you ripped my heart out and kicked it around in the sand when you didn't bust two of the other posters on the 28 tpi= .035714 ", Not .037", Not .038".
I understand the base "10" thing, but Binary [base two]? I am NOT a Switch-Hitter!!!
Hope you, Boyd, Jerry, and Al have a sense of humor.
I stand corrected.
Steve Moore
Click to expand...

Steve,
I'm glad you have a sense of humor!:)
0.05555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555556

Cheers,
Keith
 
Stephen Perry said:
Gene
Thanks for responding to my question about the PPC cartridge. I have a question for you about whether you load 133 and do you load upper level powder loads. In 6 PPC some guys are loading 30 grn +. Do you prescribe upper loads in your Beggs cartridge.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...


Steve, several years ago I quit shooting N133 when I discovered 8208. At the time, the 8208 seemed to be easier to keep in tune but with what I have learned recently, I'm sure I could shoot N133 well. Many top shooters still use it.

In both the 220 and 6mm Beggs cartridges, I shoot in the upper load window. Using Hodgdon's Benchmark, I shoot the 220 at around 3615 fps and with H4198 in the 6mm, I get around 3360 to 3400. I use 52 grain FB bullets in the 220 and 68 grain Bart's HH6 in the 6mm.

Later

Gene Beggs
 
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