Is there an optimum barrel temp range for bullet lube?

4

404tbang

Member
Howdy,
I am trying to understand a bit more about accuracy and cold weather. From digging around in old threads, a lot of folks see accuracy drop off when the temps get under 60 degrees. Some guys get decent accuracy a bit lower from what I read. One guy got good accuracy down to 15 degrees with American ammo and dry lube.

As I understand it, a good wax coating as used by European ammo makers is prefferable to avoid leading that can happen with the dry lube on American ammo.

The outside temps being warmer help accuracy from what I have read. Digging through old posts says it is the wax.

In centerfire, I was always told barrel heat would make the bullets walk, therefore heat is an enemy.

It looks to be the opposite in rimfire, if I understand it right, barrel heat can be your friend.

What outside temperature range seems optimum for bullet lube and accuracy?

What BARREL TEMPERATURE range seems optimum for bullet lube and accuracy?

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!
Greg
 
Greg,

I'm new to the game, but just from my experience and looking for answeres too before I made a BR Rimfire purchase. I found out this and I think its fairly accurate and might relate to most barrels. Hope it helps. I could just give you the super short facts only, but it wouldn't stick as well. Soooo experience go's a long way for me.

I recently went to test a gun out before I bought it and the fellow selling it said the gun really liked Eley Match 1050. Didn't have any, but had some 1060, and 1064. The gun supposedly agged in the 2100-2200 range and has had several 2400's and 2450's in the ARA format. Should be pretty good I thought.

I shot a 25 round target and was not impressed and started leaning away from the decision to buy it. I had one hard left flyier and all the holes were keyholed (laid at angle as the bullet punched the paper) Not good. It still shot a 244 with 4X with the bullets not getting stable. (barrel twist ???) (barrel worn out ???) (Ammo??) I was troubled!

I had a box of Wolf ME. Shot 246 5X. Both targets were shot in a rush as I didn't have much daylight and I was truning into a pop sickle at 38F. Looking at the target with the wolf all the holes were perfectly round and clean and I barely missed the other 4 pts by just a hair. And almost had an additional 7X's by just a hair. All shots were consistant! Considering I was shivering and had no wind flags could barely see... I thought ..... Well dang,,,I dont know what to think.

While I was there I measured the barrel twist and found it was approx 1/17 - 1/19 twist. Again, I has some unanswered questions I needed to know before I bought this gun..........The owner couldn't answer them either.. I had read much about barrel twist and the slower twist rates I had gathered were better to stay away from. But that was without understanding really why.

I left a deposit as I wanted to give the gun a chance and myself time to do some learning.

After I left, I researched who built the gun...Gene Davis and fortunatley I got to talk to him and he remembered the gun. He was the perfect person to talk too.

He enlightened me that the barrel twist was 1/17.75...I told him my experience and information I had and he told me with barrels with slow twist rates were going to be temperature sensitive and likely not shoot "as well" when the temps drop below 60 degrees expecially with the Eley EPS ammo.

And he explained why.....Eley EPS is a slightly smaller diameter bullet as the Heavy lube takes up a little space. This particular gun or any other "Tight Bore Barrel" will further narrow and elongate the bullet as it travels down the barrel. When the bullet exits the heavy lube further slows the bullet and makes it harder for the bullet to stabilize. Its ok in the summer, but the wax is stiffer in the cold and does not shed the same.

"But" there is a solution he said...Use a round nose bullet without the heavy lube. He said it should shoot just fine. It would still likely shoot better in the summer, but should still do well in the cold if I did that.

I was not afraid to buy the gun after talking to him and I did what he said and so far I have won my first two matches with it. With Wolf ME. First match was about 35F with wind hard left to right at 10-15 gust 30. (242-2X). I almost had to aim off the target completely. The second was about 40-45F with the wind variable 5-10mph. (249-9X)

You ask specifically about Barrel temp? I cannot say as I dont think anyone would be able to tell you a temp. There is likely an ideal temp but that would be so difficult to duplicate each time its not really a practical factor.

The answer I'm learning is the physics, the conditions, and knowing your equipment. (Barrel and ammo being the most important.) All twist rates can and are accurate. The slower ones seem to be the ones presenting the challange of shooting in colder weather.


I hope that helps.

Chad
 
There are a few things mentioned in this thread that I don't understand. First I don't know what American ammo could be considered as used to shoot benchrest. Second is the statement that some ammo has "dry" lubricant on it. So, there has to be some assumptions made about what is being discussed here.

Bullets are lubricated with either wax or grease. Possibly some are lubricated with a mix of these two but I'm not sure which brand this would be. Wax is a solid and it's lubrication mechanism has to be looked at from this standpoint. This might be essentially what would be described as solid, or possibly "dry" lubrication. Grease is a liquid so it's lubrication mechanism would follow the laws of fluid lubrication. Friction is higher with solids as compared to liquids.

Normal barrel temperature is very close to the melting point of wax so the lubrication process may be acting in the solid range or it may be operating in the fluid range. All this means is you may experience a rapid or quick change in friction as you go from the solid phase over into the liquid phase. In other words you could experience inaccuracy with wax lubricants as compared to grease lubricants.

On the other hand, wax is a very stable material when applied to bullets. Grease has a tendency to be rubbed off the bullets so from this standpoint it's effect might be to offer poorer accuracy. Shooters have to test to see which bullet lubricant best fits the temperature they shoot in and their way of shooting.
 
pacecil said:
There are a few things mentioned in this thread that I don't understand. First I don't know what American ammo could be considered as used to shoot benchrest.
Click to expand...

Some of us still have a lot Federal UM1, 1000B and 900B. That was american made, and with a much different lube than Eley.

Ed
 
chadflys

Howdy!
Chadflys, I am new also, and I am just trying to learn as much as I can.

You are correct, the super short facts don't always stick, that story will, thank you!

Greg
 
the failure of a rifle to shoot well in cold weather is a sympton of the rifle not being tuned. all that is changing in warm or cold weather is friction. and that friction either speeds or slows depending on the cold. if the rifle is timed properly there is no reason it can't shoot well in weather in the 30's and 40's.
 
Kent, here is what makes me think that. on my sporters with no tuners some shoot lapua better all year long but, 3 or 4 when the weather is 55 degrees or better will shoot eley better. on my 3 rifles with tuners I can take them out no matter the weather in temps 30 degrees and they shoot well and they all shoot eley. here's something else that has as big an impact on cold weather are the plastic inserts on rings. if you don't think so put your rifle on a secured rest with the scope on the x ring and let the sun hit the scope for 15 mins and see where the reticle is? then try the same with a rifle mounted with heavy rings such as warne split rings. the plastic inserts will be off an entire ring and the warne rings might be off a line maximum. it's not always the bullets fault.
 
I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a BR rifle with crap rings!
 
Brian, never said that rings were crap. what I said is in cold or for that matter hot weather or direct sunlight the plastic inserts can and do expand and contract at a different rate than aluminum or steel. and that can change the poi. how I found out was described above, walking away while a rifle was in the rest. maybe I'm anal about accuracy and that may not bother some, then again these are my opinions and how I set-up my rifles. I have several in the works and they are all going to be set-up the same way and they all will shoot when it's 40 degrees out. it won't be me complaining that I can't shoot such and such a speed or I cant shoot when it's hot or cold because it will not matter to me. I'll be shooting good scores when others aren't.:)
 
So true Gene.

Shooting good scores is easy when your not at a match!
 
barrel temps

Howdy!
So, if one were able to somewhat keep the barrel in a given temp range, would that presumably allow consistancy regardless of the outside temperature?

I have read where some guys shoot at specified intervals, 30 seconds or so if I remember right, in order to keep the barrel warm. Supposedly they maintain better accuracy.

One guy posted that the hotter his barrel was, the better it shot.

Would this not be one way to keep a barrel in the desired temp range, if we only knew what that range was?

I am curious about a difference between outside temps, and BARREL temps.

Thanks,
Greg
 
Greg,
I think keeping the ammo warm might be the key, assuming you're shooting in 40 degree weather, which I prefer not to do with slow twist barrels. Also maintaining a cadence as you shoot hepls to keep the ammo from getting cold too fast. If it's cold, I don't wnat to spend over 10 minutes shooting a 30 minute target. You also have to take into account bore size(diameter), ammo type, chamber size, and twist, and humidity. I don't think any of the rifles shoot their best in the cold, let's say below 40 degrees Fahrenheit, but some work better that others.
 
Kent is right about keeping the ammo warm. Several years ago I bought a rifle, in January. Since it was new to me, I wanted to shoot even if it was cold. One Sat. morning the sun was shining with little wind. When the temperature warmed up to double digits I headed for the range. Shot a target at about 15 degrees with ammo sitting on the bench. Everything was good until about the 3rd row, then shots started dropping straight down into the black on a 50/50 target. They were consistent, but low. Learned something that day, keep your ammo warm!

Question for those in the know. My 17 twist barrel will keyhole in low temperatures too. If the shot is a ten, does it matter what the hole looks like?

Ken
 
TangoTwo said:
Question for those in the know. My 17 twist barrel will keyhole in low temperatures too. If the shot is a ten, does it matter what the hole looks like?

Ken
Click to expand...

Can’t answer that unless you can answer this question: Would an official scorer plug the target where the bullet’s point entered resulting in a 10.....even if the heel of the bullet broke the next scoring ring?:D Worst edge scoring of course.
 
Ken and Husker...

Taken from the IR50/50 rules:

"If any holes are bigger than a .22 plug the lowest score will be awarded. If more than two bullet holes are larger than a .22 plug, target will be disqualified. "

I've only seen this once, and it's hard to score when the ring you need to see is gone! At least you get three strikes.

Jim
 
Hi All,
Interesting thread. I've been grappling with the same subject these past few weeks as I love to shoot no matter what the temperature. Has anyone tried the Lapua Polar Biathlon? I ordered a half dozen boxes the other day out of pure curiosity. I haven't received them yet, and given the time of year I expect them sometime at the end of January. tim
 
Tango, think about what you just said? the reason the rounds dropped straight down is the velocity changed and where your tuner is set could not compensate for it.
 
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