Is 6mm Norma BR still competitive?

[gt40]

For 1,000 yd. bench rest competition.

My buddy says that the 6mm Norma BR is not competitive at 1,000 yds. any more only out to 600 yds. Is it winning any competitions any more at 1,000 yds. or the bigger "cannons" doing all the winning?

What is the straight scoop?

gt40

 

[Lynn]

gt40
On the leftcoast Ken Schroeder finished 1st in score at our biggest non-match last month using a standard 6BR and 107 Sierra's.
I think the trend is still running a 6mm bullet be it a 6Dasher 6x47 6BR or 6wildcat.
If you look at the match results for Camp Butner I think Thomas Ellington is doing very well with his 6Dasher against the 300 Ackleys.
Waterboy

 

[Charles E]

My buddy says that the 6mm Norma BR is not competitive at 1,000 yds.

That's probably wrong. As Lynn says, the variants -- Dasher, BRX, etc. are a little more popular, but the straight 6BR has adherents. One, at Pennsylvania, set a record a year or so ago, and has generally done well.

Thomas Ellington, who Lynn mentioned, has a great barrel. I've shot against it too many times. Even his grandson beat all of us his first or second time out, with a 2.XXX. Grandson is small enough that he stands behind the bench to shoot, that puts his eye just right behind the scope.

When Thomas is shooting, it doesn't matter whether or not the wind is blowing. He places high up there, usually in group. I mention this because the person who answered your post on the F-class forum seemed to feel the 6BR lost capability in the wind. As far as I know, that person doesn't shoot 1K BR; certainly he is relatively new to BR generally.

A superior barrel and superior lot of bullets will trump the extra 100 fps or so of the Dasher & kin.

And that may be where the answer lies; as far as wins go, a bit better than average barrel lets you compete for score, but not for group. And as soon as you're concentrating on score, the high-BC bullets have a decided edge.

That's where the .30s shine; very good barrel and you're competitive against anyone for group, average to good barrel and you're still competitive for score.

It may be that it is a bit easier to make good .30 barrels, and .30 bullets as well. There has been some speculation about that, but AFAIK, no proof. I've shot a number of 6mms, a couple were spectacular. But I keep coming back to the .30s

 

[trouble]

That's probably wrong. As Lynn says, the variants -- Dasher, BRX, etc. are a little more popular, but the straight 6BR has adherents. One, at Pennsylvania, set a record a year or so ago, and has generally done well.

Thomas Ellington, who Lynn mentioned, has a great barrel. I've shot against it too many times. Even his grandson beat all of us his first or second time out, with a 2.XXX. Grandson is small enough that he stands behind the bench to shoot, that puts his eye just right behind the scope.

When Thomas is shooting, it doesn't matter whether or not the wind is blowing. He places high up there, usually in group. I mention this because the person who answered your post on the F-class forum seemed to feel the 6BR lost capability in the wind. As far as I know, that person doesn't shoot 1K BR; certainly he is relatively new to BR generally.

A superior barrel and superior lot of bullets will trump the extra 100 fps or so of the Dasher & kin.

And that may be where the answer lies; as far as wins go, a bit better than average barrel lets you compete for score, but not for group. And as soon as you're concentrating on score, the high-BC bullets have a decided edge.

That's where the .30s shine; very good barrel and you're competitive against anyone for group, average to good barrel and you're still competitive for score.

It may be that it is a bit easier to make good .30 barrels, and .30 bullets as well. There has been some speculation about that, but AFAIK, no proof. I've shot a number of 6mms, a couple were spectacular. But I keep coming back to the .30s

If it is easier to make good 30 cal. barrels and bullets then it looks like they would clean up at 600 yds. also. It doesn't happen though. The only reason I believe they are even competitive at 1000 yds. is their high bc. On the calmer days the 6mm wins there too.

 

[Charles E]

If it is easier to make good 30 cal. barrels and bullets then it looks like they would clean up at 600 yds. also. It doesn't happen though. The only reason I believe they are even competitive at 1000 yds. is their high bc. On the calmer days the 6mm wins there too.

Everybody's got an opinion.

Here was a reasonably calm day

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/2010/Butner/M9.htm

Just go to the shootoffs and see what calibers dominated.

Here is another one, where Thomas Ellington and his Dasher got a win in HG.

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/2010/Butner/M10.htm

Look at the caliber of the rest of the winners.

* * *

The new 1K group record, shot by Matt Kline, was with a .30 (.300 WSM). The record it broke, shot by Joel Pendergraft, was shot with a .30 (.300 Ackley)

And the short range guys, who shoot 100 and 200, are beginning to take notice of the .30, even in group. I find it amusing that after 20 years of 6mm, the short range guys are allowing the .30BR can be as competitive in group shooting. The 600 yard guys harping on the 6mm superiority sounds more like fashion to me. Well, fashion does play a large role . . .

Edit:

I should have also given the link for the 2010 IBS Nationals; Looks like there were lots of 6mms, including the plain 6BR.

http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/long_range/2010/GopherRRC/1kNationals/GRRCNationals.php

Kind of hard to correlate the equipment with the placings, but it is a lot of data.