IR 50/50 averages

M

martin hammond

Guest
these sporters and scores continue to impress, here are the top 20 in 50/50 averages and x's. sporter avg. score 249.45 with 14.0x's. 10.5 lbs avg.score 249.46 and 16.3x's. 13.5lbs avg. score 249.49 and 16.5x's that's the 7 high scores from 50/50 and their avg x's for the top 20 in each catagory.
 
martin hammond said:
these sporters and scores continue to impress, here are the top 20 in 50/50 averages and x's. sporter avg. score 249.45 with 14.0x's. 10.5 lbs avg.score 249.46 and 16.3x's. 13.5lbs avg. score 249.49 and 16.5x's that's the 7 high scores from 50/50 and their avg x's for the top 20 in each catagory.
Click to expand...

So for an additional $2000 I can get 2.5 more X's :D
 
Really ain't sayin' much

Using a select "Top XX" scores really doesn't mean much...if anything at all. The 2009 averages (all targets) are:

Sporter - 239.6
10.5 - 243.6
13.5 - 243.8
Unlimited - 243.4

Still doesn't mean anything except (perhaps) that some rifles shoot better than others.
 
I think the top scoreline scores were better in 2006 than in 2009, pretty sure of it. How'd they compare Wilbur? If you got that info?
 
Wilbur those top 20 or even 50 names are interchangeable between the three venues listed. I would suspect the top shooters are not only good marksmen but also have and maintain the best equipement, not certain that can be said for all shooters. and Kent if the scores were higher in previous years that tells me nobody paid attention.
 
Kent Owens said:
I think the top scoreline scores were better in 2006 than in 2009, pretty sure of it. How'd they compare Wilbur? If you got that info?
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While I shoot with the rest of you, I only shoot against myself.

I know my scores are better now than they were in 2006 and that is all that matters to me.

Just a question:

Most of the people I shoot with shoot unlimited. I don't understand the need to have so many classes.

How about just sporter and unlimited? Really, the 10-1/2 and the 13-1/2 and the unlimited are so close anyway.

Concho Bill
 
Those 10.5 & 13.5 lb. classes were created in about 1960 by the NBRSA, for centerfire matches. Someone suggested a 9.5 lb. sporter classs in 1959.

I had a rifle built up for that class, then "someone" decided to make it a 10.5 lb. SPORTER class. Then they added the 13.5 lb. class, then they added a 10.5 lb. Light Varmint Class.

In my opinion it was a poorly thought out set of classes, and back in the 1990s when rimfire benchrest was born, the same illogical set of classes were adopted by IR-50/50. Then USBR and RBA played copycat.

Do any of you here wonder why our sport never grew up?

Joe Haller
 
Martin

That's right.

I think that good, better, and best could be shown as being consistent. That's a mix of skill, equipment and the determination to maintain or improve with the latter weighing more.
 
Sporter class is good, I don't think anyone questions that; but does anyone ever purpose build a rifle more than 13-1/2#? Thanks, Douglas
 
i always thought sporter class was doug. 10and a half and 13 and a half.
anything goes as long as you make weight except for electronic and remote
triggers.
 
Kent

The unlimited scoreline has slightly higher scores as the years pass. The class scorelines remain within a one point difference (plus or minus) for the first 5 places in the three years contested.
 
Wilbur,
In 2006 Bob Collins and myself had a 1749 out of 1750 for the sporter scoreline with a whole lot of X's, and I had a 1750-140X's on the 13.5 scoreline. I don't recall what the 10.5 was but DJ maxed it out I believe with a 1750 and whole lot of X's. I have a print out somehwere here in the clutter of that year.

I think overall more people are shooting better scores, but the "top" scores shot have not improved that much over the past years. Which is interesting, because the ammo has gotten much better across the board.
 
Kent, things don't just happen, the reason the top scores have not gone up much with the improved ammo is. for 20 years shooters were told, shown drawings as to a barrel's vibration patterns. barrels were designed around that thinking. now thanks to the work of varmint Al and others we know that the info out there was totaly wrong. a barrel developed around thinking as to it's vibration led to overweight tuners, mid barrel tuners and jj slides along with little red feathers to control vibration. if 20 years ago correct info was put out there you would not be where we are today. garbage in garbage out. now the smart shooter knows how a barrel vibrates and the real work on accuracy is only begining.
 
The reason the top scores have not gone up is it is not possible to get over 250. Look at the ARA scores for the last few years. Every year someone scores higher than was ever believed possible the year before. Note Joe's Stat line score for this year. He averaged more than most shooters have ever scored on one target.
 
Martin

martin hammond said:
Kent, things don't just happen, the reason the top scores have not gone up much with the improved ammo is. for 20 years shooters were told, shown drawings as to a barrel's vibration patterns. barrels were designed around that thinking. now thanks to the work of varmint Al and others we know that the info out there was totaly wrong. a barrel developed around thinking as to it's vibration led to overweight tuners, mid barrel tuners and jj slides along with little red feathers to control vibration. if 20 years ago correct info was put out there you would not be where we are today. garbage in garbage out. now the smart shooter knows how a barrel vibrates and the real work on accuracy is only begining.
Click to expand...

Martin, Thank God, We get you and Obama in the same year to bring about "Change". Too bad you weren't around 20 years ago to set us on the right path. I know we were all impressed by your 234 and 237 in the IR50-50 match you shot in. I can tell you are on the right path. Keep up the good work and I really appreciate you badmouthing the products I manufacture.
 
Martin,
As I've said before, the things you are discovering aren't new at all. I had 5 oz tuner on my 10.5 class rifle in 2003.

The same thing doesn't work for every rifle, and there's a lot more to ammo than you seem to realize. I can think of 20 guys with top rifles that if put on the line in the same conditions, same relay, same match, the deciding factor would be the ammo.

Of course I'm not talking scores of 250-15X, I'm talking an agg of 750-60X or so to win, or 250-22 or 23X cards in RBA or IR5050. There are lots of rifles out there capable of that if they have the right batch of ammo.
 
Kent

Dern it! Now why did you go and tell him that? I liked his post that said all ammo is equal the best.
 
Keith,
I dunno, I just woke up, wasn't thinking. Honesty overwhelmed me, I guess. Martin's a good guy, and I don't mean to argue with him.

The more you fool with rimfire rifles, the more you learn there are exceptions to every thing you think you have figued out!? Nothin's written in stone! And, if you think you got it all figured out, then there's no reason to try and improve from where you are.
 
Kent Owens said:
Keith,
I dunno, I just woke up, wasn't thinking. Honesty overwhelmed me, I guess. Martin's a good guy, and I don't mean to argue with him.

The more you fool with rimfire rifles, the more you learn there are exceptions to every thing you think you have figued out!? Nothin's written in stone! And, if you think you got it all figured out, then there's no reason to try and improve from where you are.
Click to expand...

Back awhile ago when I started playing with these things I knew a lot more than I know today.

But there is at least one thing I'm certain. If you can't/don't shoot the big matches, you will never know how you, and your equipment stacks up.

Hope to see you and MARTIN at the barn this weekend.

Tony
 
Today's "Sporter" class rifles have about as much in common with a true sporting rifle as a NASCAR "Stock" car has with it's production brethren (the ones before the car of the future came on board that is).

Just my $0.02.

RG
 
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