IBS rule on 10.5 lb weight

G

GerryM

Active member
Is the rule still the same as to rifle weigh allowing 1 OZ over on the 10.5 lb rifles IE sporter light varmint?
rifle is right on at 10.5 lbs but may weight a tad different on other scales
 
Hi Gerry,,,to the best of my memory,,,IBS allows 1 oz of error and NBRSA allows 1/2 oz...........Roger
 
GerryM said:
Is the rule still the same as to rifle weigh allowing 1 OZ over on the 10.5 lb rifles
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IBS Does not allow rifles to be 1 oz. overweight.

IBS allows one ounce for scale error.

If you have a rifle that weighs a full 10.5 lbs. and a scale that is weighing a little on the heavy side you may find yourself with a big problem. Ranges are required to have a set of certified weights but still a rile that weighs a full 10.5 will likely be a problem at some point.

And Gerry my friend, you know all of this. Nothing has changed in many, many years.

Dick
 
Dick Grosbier said:
IBS Does not allow rifles to be 1 oz. overweight.

IBS allows one ounce for scale error.

If you have a rifle that weighs a full 10.5 lbs. and a scale that is weighing a little on the heavy side you may find yourself with a big problem. Ranges are required to have a set of certified weights but still a rile that weighs a full 10.5 will likely be a problem at some point.

And Gerry my friend, you know all of this. Nothing has changed in many, many years.

Dick
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With certified weights being required, how can the scale weigh heavy and be acceptable for use without either calibrating the scale or allowing for it's inaccuracy as indicated by the certified weights.
Anyone that travels very far and who's gun is determined to be overweight by a scale that is determined to weigh over, has a very legitimate reason to be quite upset. Isn't that why certified weights are required? Either the gun meets the weight requirement, or it doesn't, with certified weights...no gray area there. The 1 ounce allowance AND certified weights requirement seems unnecessary if the allowance is for the scale.
I'm not arguing your interpretation, just it's reasoning. I don't see the need for allowances if certified weights are required.

My point is that a person should be able to shoot his rifle that weighs 10.500lbs anywhere in the country without worrying about how much a set of range scales "might" be off. It's double talk for the rules to say the allowance for the gun is zero, but the scales is 1 ounce, but require certified weights. How much under is safe unless the scales are the instrument being held to the higher standard?
Kinda like claiming action or barrel work being within 50 millionths. It can't be proven not to be in a jig that isn't at least that accurate..repeatably.

I don't know when that rule or rules were implemented, but even a fairly inexpensive set of digital scales are quite accurate these days.
 
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stool said:
i will not even go into how hard it is to get ibs to change anything....
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This should be, IMHO, a top priority. No one should have to travel 1000 miles in the dead of winter, to Pa., to assure a rule that needs to be addressed gets fixed....much less carry enough voters with them to make certain it passes.

With internet voting, little things like this could be dealt with by the entire membership in very short order.

I think the organization is moving in the right direction, but internet voting was voted on and passed by it's members a few years ago, yet it has not been implemented, as far as I'm aware.

I've asked Dick about the status of it's implementation before, on here..but with no reply. Dick, or other officials of the organization, would you care to reply to this question now?

Simply stating that one should get the required number of people to sign and have a proxy carry the petition to the annual meeting is no longer the way the membership voted to change rules. The organization should move forward with what it's members voted on and passed, in this regard.

The members deserve to know where this stands.

I hope to get a polite and reasonable response, but my guess is that either this thread takes off in a frenzy, or more likely, it dies quietly. If so, I apologize to the op and hope that he gets, or has received the answer to his question concerning the weight rule.
 
Didn't take much to get Green Lasers banned.
And they are not even used during a tournament.
What would be the counter point?
Every "Gunsmith" has to take a 40 hr course and pass with 80% on a 2 day test......
Every IBS Officer should take a 40 hr course and pass with 80% on a 2 day test....
Every Target Scorer should take a 40 hr course and pass with 80% on a 2 day test....
By the way. The Training Class would have to be certified by the VA. And only apply to 36 out of 57 states.
Only held on the Leap Year.
By the Way. The class would be on "Safe Handling of Foods in the Summer Months and Watering your dog".

Oh and Safety Glasses are required on every gun range in those 57 states. And will be checked with a doctors note. Side Shields will be riveted on.
Required means you have them properly installed at all times. Mine were $350 USD. How about yours????
 
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zippy06 said:
didn't take much to get green lasers banned.
And they are not even used during a tournament.
What would be the counter point?
Every "gunsmith" has to take a 40 hr course and pass with 80% on a 2 day test......
Every ibs officer should take a 40 hr course and pass with 80% on a 2 day test....
Every target scorer should take a 40 hr course and pass with 80% on a 2 day test....
By the way. The training class would have to be certified by the va. And only apply to 36 out of 57 states.
Only held on the leap year.
By the way. The class would be on "safe handling of foods in the summer months and watering your dog".

Oh and safety glasses are required on every gun range in those 57 states. And will be checked with a doctors note. Side shields will be riveted on.
Required means you have them properly installed at all times. Mine were $350 usd. How about yours????
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say what ????
 
One of the problems here is "certified". There aren't many places that have the ability to "certify" anything, and by what standard?

I believe the IBS should make "certified" weights available for ranges to purchase, just as they do with the scoring devices. That way a true "standard" is set. And if a range is going to weight rifles, those weights should be there.

I also think it would be petty for a range to DQ a rifle for one or two ounces. There are honest mistakes and then there are intentional mistakes. If someone really wants to cheat, they will find a way. A couple ounces won't make one rifle win.
 
Wayne Shaw said:
I also think it would be petty for a range to DQ a rifle for one or two ounces.
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Ranges do not DQ rifles that is a referee decision.

And you are correct one or two ounces does not make a rifle win, so why take the chance and build it that heavy, I like a full ounce light.
Wayne, I know you build riflles, do you build them 100% as heavy as allowed? That is certainly legal, and should be ok any place you go . It just seems to me a practice that might cause unnecessary grief if you run across a scale that the range is sure is correct, and you believe is not. I have been there and done that.
Dick
 
You are correct Dick, it is the referees that DQMOT. My mistake. Most people, especially in the 10.5# class build to close as possible? I'm sure Hunter does too at 10#. So who's scale is right and who's isn't? I still think the governing body should make CONTROL weights available to take that question out of the equation.
 
Wayne Shaw said:
I still think the governing body should make CONTROL weights available to take that question out of the equation.
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I actually agree with you Wayne. The problem is cost. NBRSA used to have a set (10, 3 & 8oz) at a reasonable cost. But I looked into that a few years back when you were an IBS officer in fact, and found they were not available at that time. Just now I checked on a set of Certified / Traceable weights at Scaleman.com and found following prices.

10 lb w cert $159.50 http://scaleman.com/10-lb-balance-grip-handle-weight-pw12828.html
1 lb weight (unfortunately they do not make a 3 lb so 3 are needed $128.00 X 3 $384.00 http://scaleman.com/1-pound-stainless-steel-weight.html
8 oz. weight $87.00 http://scaleman.com/8-ounces-scale-test-weight.html

So a set of certified weights from this source costs over $600 (my math may be off) find me a set of certified weights at a price a range can afford. And we IBS would gladly make a deal to resell them to clubs. As it currently stands people have to do what my club did and make a set of weights and get them certified by some friend in a local State weights and measures department.

As mentioned earlier in this thread good scales are cheap these days. I have a $35 scale that agrees perfectly with my clubs check weights. But without thise check weights you have nothing provable weight wise.

P.S. scalesgalore.com has a 3lb certified weight and an 8oz at $232.60 that can get a certified set of weights down to right around $400.00 still awfully pricey for a club with only a few shooters.
http://www.scalesgalore.com/Rice_la...&this_selected_product_id=20171#AVCYLINDRICAL
 
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As an aside, years back I had to have pressure gauges "certified" a for Corps of Eng. project, and there was a shop in Manassas that tested and adjusted them. Maybe that would be a better/cheaper way to go, have existing weights checked.

The whole issue is bitter/sweat. On one hand it would be nice to believe shooters would do the right thing, (which I truly believe most all do) but the other hand says "trust buy verify".
 
Wayne Shaw said:
On one hand it would be nice to believe shooters would do the right thing, (which I truly believe most all do) but the other hand says "trust buy verify".
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Wayne , I agree.
But some guys are just kinda dumb when it comes to weight. I had a shooter at a recent Bud Pryor come to 3 days of shooting with a HV rifle that he had removed a 36x Leupold or Weaver from and replaced it with a 12-42 NightForce, he was over a pound overweight. He was a nice guy and had no other rifle but referees had no choice but to turn him away. I have also had a well known HOF shooter do the same thing, but only by 3 oz, changing from a T36 to an LCS this man is a close personal friend and I find it hard to believe he was trying to cheat, I prefer to think he just had a stupid moment.

Some people are just stupid when it comes to weight, Also heard of a very well known shooter who got absolutely belligerent about range scale being off and shot a potential record with the dq'd rifle only to call Match director a few days later and apologize as his home scale read in decimal and the range scale read in oz's and he now realized he was well over the limit.
 
Truth is, if a scale weighs the check weights and is wrong in excess of an ounce (1/2 ounce NBRSA) - the scales shouldn't (can't) be used to weigh rifles. I don't think the rule is confounded in that interpretation. It's unfortunate that the rules state "certified" weights as they are somewhat expensive but I do understand why.

I'm a little confused....what's the problem with this rule? It's been that way for years and years.
__________________

Looking back at the thread, my "confusion" is a bit unwarranted....can't really tell if it is or isn't.
 
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IBS rule on 10 .5 LB rifle weight

Yes I do know Dick but I had to recheck. With so many proposed rule changes I had to make sure.
There are a set of check certified weight at Camillus.
Problem is they have to be cleaned and checked . The electronic scale reads 10 lbs 8 oz. The shooter who is worried about it is a new shooter, with used equipment.
The rifle is right on weight It can be lighted by changing the cocking piece schroud.
 
GerryM said:
The shooter who is worried about it is a new shooter, with used equipment.
The rifle is right on weight It can be lighted by changing the cocking piece schroud.
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That would not be a bad idea, but if he is a new shooter he will probably shoot mostly locally he should at least tell the gunsmith who does his next barrel to go just a tad lighter.
The only IBS rule changes in weighing of rifles in 35 years I have been shooting is to allow digital scales (provided you have certified weights to check with)
 
If anybody wants some I can make a few certification certificates and the whole thing will cost pennies. I'm just kidding about the certificates (almost) but a few years ago I was at a 50/50 match somewhere and the guy had a milk jug with lead shot in it for a check weight. I asked how he made it and he said he put it on the scales he had and made it weigh right. I've been thinking about that ever since......
 
Check Weights

I believe that the check weights, that we use at TCSC, were certified by the "Maryland Bureau of Weights and Measures". That organization is
supposedly responsible for checking all the scales used for legal commerce.
 
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