HOW TO USE A TUNER, Part 3

Gene Beggs

Active member
Part 2 of this is tacked onto part 1. I thought it best to start a new thread for part 3.

A couple of things before we begin;

1. Most of the tuners in use today are cylindrical and utilize one or more pinch bolts to lock them in place. Adjusting them can be time consuming and frustrating and many shooters are reluctant to move them once locked in place. This is unfortunate because the biggest advantage of a tuner is to be able to vary the frequency of the barrel to compensate for changes in atmospheric conditions. If you do not move it, the tuner serves only as a counterweight. If you can make fine adjustments, quickly and easily using a reference mark, you can fine tune the barrel to the current condition. :D Big advantage! :D

2. Many of you are concerned about how to accurately determine density altitude. Don't worry about it, you can take full advantage of your tuner with no knowledge whatsoever of density altitude by using the simple tuning procedure described in part 2.

Once the benchmark for the day has been established, and density altitude has been determined, you can accurately predict, with a simple formula, what the proper tuner setting will be before going to the firing line. This saves both time and wear and tear on your barrel, but if you are willing to sacrifice two or three extra sighters each time you go to the line, you can forget about density altitude. ;) How 'bout that? :cool: Huh? :cool:


The Beggs Tuner is the simplest thing in the world and once you master the use of it, you will slap your forehead and say, "I can't believe it is that simple; I wish I was the only one that knew about this." :cool:

Review these three parts and we will have a question and answer session.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Hi Gene,

How does your tuner attach to the barrel? How much does it weigh? Any idea when they will be ready for sale and how much they will cost?

I have a brand new barrel ready to install and I am wondering if I could add the tuner to it. Weight will probably be the issue.

How are you dealing with the added weight? Different contour? Shorter length?

Thanks. I enjoy reading your posts.

Rob
 
Hi Gene,

How does your tuner attach to the barrel? How much does it weigh? Any idea when they will be ready for sale and how much they will cost?

I have a brand new barrel ready to install and I am wondering if I could add the tuner to it. Weight will probably be the issue.

How are you dealing with the added weight? Different contour? Shorter length?

Thanks. I enjoy reading your posts.

Rob

Here are some barrels that will make weight in LV with an 11 oz tuner attached. They range in weight from 3# 5oz to 4# 4oz.

Note the funny looking tubes on two of these. Those were the tuner style we had to use in 2005 when the IBS had a restriction on tuner diameter.

Dick Grosbier just posted that the tuner rule just passed at the IBS annual meeting. It is noteworthy that the just passed rule does not have a diameter restriction, as is also the case of the NBRSA rule.

6jaoihf.jpg
 
Density Altitude

Gene:
Since Humidity has only a small effect on DA, can a chart be put together to determine DA for a particular range using actual Baro and Temp?
You know, temp on the side, baro on the top and connect the lines.
Bryan
 
Hi Gene,

How does your tuner attach to the barrel?

The two collars screw directly onto the muzzle and tighten against each other to lock them in place.


How much does it weigh?


Three ounces.


Any idea when they will be ready for sale and how much they will cost?

They should be ready within ten days. If there are no surprises, they will retail for $49.00.


I have a brand new barrel ready to install and I am wondering if I could add the tuner to it. Weight will probably be the issue.

It depends on whether your new barrel is a LV contour or HV and how much weight can be removed elsewhere. If the barrel is excessively long, it can easily be shortened to make weight. Check with your gunsmith.


How are you dealing with the added weight? Different contour? Shorter length?

I have had no trouble with weight on either of my rifles, but I have my own two-piece aluminum stock design which weighs very little. Even with the tuner installed, I can easily use a 26 inch barrel on a HV and a 24 inch on a sporter or LV. Many of the stocks today are very light and you will seldom encounter a problem adding three ounces.


Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene:
Since Humidity has only a small effect on DA, can a chart be put together to determine DA for a particular range using actual Baro and Temp?
You know, temp on the side, baro on the top and connect the lines.
Bryan

Bryan, I do not have such a chart at this time, but I'm sure one is available. Maybe someone else will chime in with where you can get one. I would imagine such a chart could be found with a Google search.
 
I think that this should do it.
http://tsrsoftware.com/images/air-dens.gif
It would be interesting to see if working off of this chart would be feasable for setting a tuner. The math for density altitude calculation is why they sell meters that do it for you. Unfortunately they are a bit pricey. It seems that an ordinary temp./humidity meter and a barometer would allow the use of the chart. Wouldn't it be nice it that was all that it took to stay in tune.
 
Boyd, although I have seen it done, I would not feel good about consulting a DA chart and dialing in a tuner setting based solely on that information for the first match of the morning.

During the extra time alloted for the first match of the day, I will always start with the tuner in the zero position and use the procedure outlined in part 2 to get the rifle in tune. Once that has been done, I feel confident in using my formula to make adjustments to the tuner to compensate for changes in DA as the day progresses.

Gene Beggs
 
Gene

You're makin' it tough on me for the future...

Probably not a good idea to use this forum as a sales venue. Like Shelley said..."Since Gene has announced his tuner design....."
 
Wilbur

My personal opinion is that Gene is doing some serious research and developement with the Beggs cartridge line and with the tuners. I check BRC frequently for updates and look forward to information.
If he had said "The Beggs Tuner is now available, call BR549" in the title line then that could be construed as commercial, but I feel he is providing "Information for the Precision Shooter". His posts are in line with the purpose of the board. Or no?
Bryan
 
Thank you Wilbur

You're makin' it tough on me for the future...

Probably not a good idea to use this forum as a sales venue. Like Shelley said..."Since Gene has announced his tuner design....."

You have been most patient and understanding with those of us whose posts could be considered, 'commercials' but I assure you, that is not my intent. Those who know me well will tell you that I give a lot of stuff away. Some cannot understand why I will freely give to you and others, that which has taken me years and many thousands of dollars to learn, but that is just my nature. Money has never been and never will be, my master.

I realize that I have taken up a lot of space on the forum lately, that being due mostly to the cold weather we have been having. I think I have said about all I need to say on the subject so I'll take a break and get to work. There always comes a time when nothing more can be accomplished by telling; most us must be showed. I think it's time to go into the 'show' mode.

Kindest regards,

Gene Beggs
 
Maybe missed the point - maybe not

If it's OK for one...it becomes OK for another. The next guy will simply leave off the research and good will. If a line should exist, and in my opinion it should, where is it drawn with fairness?

Nothing good about my post and it only gets worse with discussion. Just a post I felt necessary to protect the forum for the future. Please feel free to consider me terribly wrong as I'm never sure myself. I'm certainly not battin' a thousand.
 
I've thought about this a little. As Wilbur says, it is apt to get worse with discussion. Having said that, . . .

When a product gets offered for sale, something changes. What I think we have here is a bit different; this could be the test of marketing versus research.

1. If some research is done, and the results offered for all to use, that becomes a proper part of the public forum.

2. If a devise is required to take advantage of that work, and that device is offered for sale, then the project/product moves into the "sales" column.

3. However, if plans for the device and instructions for its use are made available, it moves back into a proper topic for the public forum. That is is also offered for sale for those who do not wish to fabricate it is not so much an issue (e.g., how to make & use windflags).

* * *

There are tricky thing here: for example, if the plans and instructions are made available, but it turns out that making the device requires a machine shop that most people won't have (e.g., unlike wind flags), it isn't clear what's marketing & what's not. Secondly, if the device is part of a larger package, some of which isn't available for fabrication by individuals, isn't the whole thing a commercial endeavor?

In this case, we will have to trust Wilbur's instincts, and for him it is more than theory, so I'm perfectly willing to do so.

Charles Ellertson
 
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If it's OK for one...it becomes OK for another. The next guy will simply leave off the research and good will. If a line should exist, and in my opinion it should, where is it drawn with fairness?

Nothing good about my post and it only gets worse with discussion. Just a post I felt necessary to protect the forum for the future. Please feel free to consider me terribly wrong as I'm never sure myself. I'm certainly not battin' a thousand.

Wilbur, make no apologies for looking out for the best interests of the forum. You are a wise and fair man and I am not offended in any way by your stepping in and drawing the line, so to speak. I appreciate you and this forum and all your hard work that enables all of us to participate in these informative and wonderful discussions. God bless you my friend.

Sincerely,

Gene Beggs
 
I've thought about this a little. As Wilbur says, it is apt to get worse with discussion. Having said that, . . .

When a product gets offered for sale, something changes. What I think we have here is a bit different; this could be the test of marketing versus research.

1. If some research is done, and the results offered for all to use, that becomes a proper part of the public forum.

2. If a devise is required to take advantage of that work, and that device is offered for sale, then the project/product moves into the "sales" column.

3. However, if plans for the device and instructions for its use are made available, it moves back into a proper topic for the public forum. That is is also offered for sale for those who do not wish to fabricate it is not so much an issue (e.g., how to make & use windflags).

* * *

There are tricky thing here: for example, if the plans and instructions are made available, but it turns out that making the device requires a machine shop that most people won't have (e.g., unlike wind flags), it isn't clear what's marketing & what's not. Secondly, if the device is part of a larger package, some of which isn't available for fabrication by individuals, isn't the whole thing a commercial endeavor?

In this case, we will have to trust Wilbur's instincts, and for him it is more than theory, so I'm perfectly willing to do so.

Charles Ellertson


Charles, your post is spot on and very well stated. If I should ever find myself on trial for something, I would hope for a judge as wise as Wilbur, a jury foreman as wise as you, and an attorney as skilled as Mike Marcelli. :D :D

Good night guys, I'm going to the tunnel. :) :)

Gene Beggs
 
thanks for the lesson

Me thinks Wilbur and Gene have both just given us a fine example of what being gentlemanly is all about. I dare suggest that if we all would follow their lead that this board would be a far, far better place.

Scott
 
While I had originally missed it I believe where that line may have been cross is when Gene posted the price for his tuner.
Of course I originally missed it because I was very interested in that information.
Had that been a reference to a classified ad here I hope that would be OK as I do not often go to the classified ads but would have missed out on Gene Davis's optical booster had I not seen a post referencing his ad for such.
James
 
I wonder if Gene's tuner would work on a rimfire? 3ozs doesn't seem like much, compared to what we're used to. thanks, Douglas
 
Wilbur...

I understand the necessity of protecting this forum from being used for blatant commercials. Within the last week the was a post on here announcing some indoor range opening and, of course, all benchrest shooters were invited.... As I recall the price was $26.00 per hour.

I doubt if that is the case here. First off, IMHO Gene isn't doing this for the money but to share knowledge with those of us who don't have a tunnel to shoot in during the winter. In all fairness, think about how many $49.00 tuners one has to sell to pay for that tunnel. Ain't gonna happen. Any profit would only be a small part of each $49.00.

Secondly, there was a time when benchrest shooting was all about the sharing of knowledge. I would like to have lived in that time... just imagine being able to go to a match to see what that crazy Harvey Donaldson had come up with this week. I guess getting old makes one nostalgic.

Do protect the forum because it's necessary but, for the good of the sport, let's give Gene Beggs a lifetime pass on this sort of thing and some kind of a medal. Imagine how much more knowledge we regular shooters would have if all the real good minds in this sport shared like Gene does.
 
.....there was a time when benchrest shooting was all about the sharing of knowledge. I would like to have lived in that time...

Dick, I think people will look back on this time as the Golden Age of Benchrest. Barrels, Actions, stocks, scopes, barrels...anything a guy wants to try is out there and available. Plus, forums such as these bring a lot of knowledge to people in a way that would have taken years to get into the hands of the Joe Average back in the old days.

I agree...thanks to all those who give freely of their time and experience with little or no thought of financial gain..just to keep improving the sport.

Stay warm up there...it's -13 degrees here and sunny. :) No wind though, so 'ya don't need gloves. ;)

Good shootin'. -Al
 
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