how to beat a Calfee rifle with a cmp rifle

M

martin hammond

Guest
Folks, first you cannot beat all Calfee rifles with a cmp one. you can beat some. folks here's how, freakonomics that's right Calfee has built so many rifles, changed so many barrels put so many Harrell tuners on that the killer lots of ammo is no longer available to the club level guys. there is a flaw in Calfee's tuning system that limits the system to specific lots. the guys that send there rifles to england cull the ammo. the guys that compete internationally cull the ammo. and here Bob Collins gets the data sheets that none of us see and the ammo is culled again. and that means with a flawed tuning system the further down the rung you are the more in trouble ammo selection you are. and just like freakonomics the more rifles that Calfee builds with a flawed tuning system the better chance we who own cmp rifles have. these cmp rifles cannot beat all the Calfee rifles but we will continue to beat some. and that's just the way it is.
 
Hate to ask but

can you name one instance in sanctioned or, otherwise recognized competition where this has happened?
 
Where is "YOUR" proof.????

How many matches have you won ??

How many records have you set ??

In the thread titled "CHALLENGE TO BEAU AND CALFEE SHOOTERS"................

Didn't you CROW LOUD AND LONG (for 5 pages) and than PI$$ BACKWARDS when Beau accepted..

Again where is you PROOF.



Hal
 
fairchance 9-27-2009, in addition the way for the cmp rifle to shoot well is time your rifle with a Harrell's tuner, Von-Ahrens weights. buy 3 speeds of ammo slow 1044, medium 1056 and fast 1077. make the medium be your most accurate round. make the outer speeds come verticaly to the middle speed. tune the rifle to the ammo, do not let the ammo tune the rifle.
 
martin hammond said:
Folks, first you cannot beat all Calfee rifles with a cmp one. you can beat some. folks here's how, freakonomics that's right Calfee has built so many rifles, changed so many barrels put so many Harrell tuners on that the killer lots of ammo is no longer available to the club level guys. there is a flaw in Calfee's tuning system that limits the system to specific lots. the guys that send there rifles to england cull the ammo. the guys that compete internationally cull the ammo. and here Bob Collins gets the data sheets that none of us see and the ammo is culled again. and that means with a flawed tuning system the further down the rung you are the more in trouble ammo selection you are. and just like freakonomics the more rifles that Calfee builds with a flawed tuning system the better chance we who own cmp rifles have. these cmp rifles cannot beat all the Calfee rifles but we will continue to beat some. and that's just the way it is.
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That's a load of horse manure. Bob Collins will sell you what you order. Bob helped me get a case of a good lot of ammo when all I was buying from him was two or three bricks at the time. Did I shoot a Calfee rifle then. Yes I did, but I doubt that Bob knew or cared at that point, and he could have sold the entire case to a shooter with a Calfee gun who was a lot better than me. This whole ammo conspiracy theory is just raw BS. You can get the same ammo as anyone else. You continue to accelerate down the path of idiocy. Soon, you will be at the speed of light.

Bobby Knight was once asked how to beat another team his Indiana Hoosiers were about to play. The team was ranked quite a bit higer than his Hoosiers. After a lot of contemplation, Coach Knight said "Well, we have to score more points than that other team". So, you want to beat a Calfee gun with a CMP gun, simply score more points, but go head to head. Don't try some gimmick where you can claim the win, because as much as you can claim it, I can too. Proves nothing. Head to head is the only way to go. And keep in mind one thing you seem to forget. Your CMP gun does not compete with a Calfee gun. Set them both out there on a bench and they'll just sit there. It's the shooter that is in competition.
 
self defeating argument?

Martin,
I have read your info and enjoyed the discussion. If I understand what you are saying correctly, Calfee and many champion shooters get the best lots of ammo. They, or at least Calfee, build the gun to the ammo.

There are minor variances from lot to lot even from the same machine. If this argument is followed to it's logical conclusion, when the specific lot of ammo has dried up, the ammo that a specific rifle was built for, then the rifle would never shoot that good again. Presumably, the rifle could never again be tuned, as it was built around one lot of ammo. Would that also not mean that the builder had to aquire the ammo prior to the construction of the rifle?

You stated "tune the rifle to the ammo, do not let the ammo tune the rifle". With sincerity, I am not trying to be offensive or provocative, but your argument seems to be self defeating. I suspect that Calfee has tuned enough rifles built of enough similar components, that he has good insight to what needs to be done.

Please continue the discussion, but realize that if some statements get made in the heat of the moment, they can discredit anything that was beneficially stated before.

Take care,
Greg
 
There is no "building the rifle to the ammo". The rifle is built. The first shot is in a bucket in the back of Bill's shop just to test for function. When it's done it goes to the range and there is a variety of ammo fired. A significant variety at that.

Calfee and many champion shooters may get the best lots of ammo, but that's because they test it. I've never seen Kirk Gaston without good ammo. I suspect it's not just luck of the draw. He knows how to test it and he does.

As far as Calfee rifle shooters gettng the best lots of ammo, that's crap. Calfee Central is Indiana where he lives. That's no different that Brock Central, Davis Central, or Gorham Central. Most of the serious shooters around his home shoot Calfee built rifles. It's just natural. These same so called "privileged" shooter were out at the ARA nationals buying ammo off of Bob Collins' table. If anybody else wanted it, they could have bought it too. Just green for lead. Nothing more.
 
maybe I was unclear/

Beau,
I just realized my post could be read a different way than I intended. I know that there is no building the rifle to the ammo. That was the way that I interpreted, or misinterpreted, Martin's ammo assertion. I thought he was trying to say that people WERE building the rifle to the ammo. I tried to present my argument in such a way that it would point out the impossibility of building the rifle to the ammo.

Sorry if I came accross wrong,
Greg
 
this is the way I feel about marksmanship. if I find a system that works i will tell other shooters about that system. if you can beat me with the same knowledge of systems then you are the better marksman. if i find as I have that Alex Sitman who is well known in centerfire is bedding my rimfire and the results are outstanding I will tell other shooters, if you can beat me with the knowledge that I share you are a better marksman. I will never stop sharing the sport for the simple reason I want to win. when will Bill finish answering the questions and supply the information requested. never I suspect, but that will not stop me or others from sharing in the sport. and thats the way it is.
 
Martin,
We are having an RBA National at Kettlefoot this coming Saturday and Sunday. I Have 2 Calfee Turbos that I would be pleased to shoot against yours. We will shoot 5 targets Saturday and 5 Sunday. That should be enough to tell. Come on down and shoot with us.
Jim
 
Pepper, thank you but I will decline. however if you wish to come to fort hand on oct. 18th I will open 2 boxes of varied speed ammo, place them in a towel and mix them. you can then shoot my rifles and tell me what you think.
 
Beau, I did not say Calfee shooters got the best ammo. I pointed out the fact Calfee is building so many killer rifles tuned with a flaw. tuning with a flaw where it results in constant testing cull's those killer lots of ammo hence, the more killer rifles Calfee builds the more testing of lots and it ends up the bottom rung guys with Calfee rifles get what no one else wants. what is so hard to understand about that. and then what happens it either sits in the safe or they sell it. thats freakonomics you know it's happening and I know it's happening, the guys selling the guns know it and the guys buying the guns know it.
 
i have to agree martin, as long as i have been here, or short for that matter, i never, ever got a clear answer for anything bill calfee ever posted here.

bill
 
Huh?

"constant testing cull's those killer lots of ammo"

What in the name of God are you talking about? I have never heard so much drivel in my life.
Do you mean that eley can't keep up with production because Calfee is testing so much?:rolleyes: You really are not serious are you? If you are I think we better flush because that statement has some odor!!!:D
 
Molly, do you guys read anything? read post 141 of the calffe- Al post. and molly if you can't understand the post about pulling all the good ammo first, I can see why someone like you needs to have your tuner set and never changed.
 
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even when a Harrel muzzle device is properly weighted and posistioned....does not mean the gun will shoot all lots equally well. geez if it was tuned without flaws who knows how it would shoot all lots?
 
404tbang said:
Beau,
I just realized my post could be read a different way than I intended. I know that there is no building the rifle to the ammo. That was the way that I interpreted, or misinterpreted, Martin's ammo assertion. I thought he was trying to say that people WERE building the rifle to the ammo. I tried to present my argument in such a way that it would point out the impossibility of building the rifle to the ammo.

Sorry if I came accross wrong,
Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,

You didn't come across wrong. I was adding to your argument, not going against what you were saying. I was probably the one unclear but I knew what you meant.
 
martin hammond said:
this is the way I feel about marksmanship. if I find a system that works i will tell other shooters about that system. if you can beat me with the same knowledge of systems then you are the better marksman. if i find as I have that Alex Sitman who is well known in centerfire is bedding my rimfire and the results are outstanding I will tell other shooters, if you can beat me with the knowledge that I share you are a better marksman. I will never stop sharing the sport for the simple reason I want to win. when will Bill finish answering the questions and supply the information requested. never I suspect, but that will not stop me or others from sharing in the sport. and thats the way it is.
Click to expand...

Martin,

Bill can't tell you his secrets. He has none, they've all been published. Because you can't apply them, don't blame him. And that's the way it is.
 
martin hammond said:
Beau, I did not say Calfee shooters got the best ammo. I pointed out the fact Calfee is building so many killer rifles tuned with a flaw. tuning with a flaw where it results in constant testing cull's those killer lots of ammo hence, the more killer rifles Calfee builds the more testing of lots and it ends up the bottom rung guys with Calfee rifles get what no one else wants. what is so hard to understand about that. and then what happens it either sits in the safe or they sell it. thats freakonomics you know it's happening and I know it's happening, the guys selling the guns know it and the guys buying the guns know it.
Click to expand...

Maybe you ought to point the finger elsewhere. Calfee doesn't build 300 rifles a year.

I guess for me, I'll just limp along with my bottom rung ammo. There's sure some ammo sitting in safes that I would like to buy.
 
instead of riddles, tell varmit Al exactly what varmit Al has been asking. lets see if 18 months later the same instructions are given. Bill either mis-led us last year or did not tune that rifle 10 years ago. I am begining to beleive last years I got lucky folks real lucky muzzle stop was just a tale. it either happenend in june of 2008 or 10 years ago which story is the right and honorable story as they are different.
 
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