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2628
Guest
Just by chance, would anyone know what powder Hornady uses in their .223, 75 gr hpbt load? I'm a novice reloader and am struggling to get close to the same group with anything I've tried.
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nhkuehl
Guest
Hornady ammo
If you are talking about the Superformance Match (2930 fps muzzle) the powder is a proprietary blend that I don't think is available to reloaders. The Match (2790 fps muzzle) may be in their loading manual. I would probably try Varget or H4895. - nhk
If you are talking about the Superformance Match (2930 fps muzzle) the powder is a proprietary blend that I don't think is available to reloaders. The Match (2790 fps muzzle) may be in their loading manual. I would probably try Varget or H4895. - nhk
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2628
Guest
nhk, I have a Tikka T3, 8 twist that shoots the older factory loads under a quarter inch at 100 yds, but at a buck a shot I don't shoot to many of them. So I tore apart a factory load and it has 24 grains of what looks like H 4895 or Varget, same size, same color etc. However 24 grs won't fit in the casing. I think you may be right about the proprietary powder. I was hoping someone had figured it out. Thanks for the reply.
May I suggest that it's not 'the secret load'..... it's something else in the process???
Bear with me please.
I sometimes hold informal reloading classes and my first assignment for beginning reloaders is "make a load that shoots better than the cheapest Federal loads from Walmart." This is harder than it looks
I would start by really assessing the amount you're resizing the cases, specifically in length. Try for minimal shoulder setback.
Now this you're going to hate, but take 9 of those magic older rounds and shoot three 3-shot groups..... now overlay them.... do they REALLY agg under 1/4 inch?? I know, you're "wasting your good stuff" but hey, it ain't gonna' last forever!
Take heart, there's at least one person in the world (me) who believes that you CAN always match or beat factory loads for accuracy.... always. But sometimes it takes some careful assessment of your system. Again, it is my opinion that you can only go so far with "tuning the powder charge." Try something else. Try necksize-only, try making cases with fatter necks, try another loading die, play with seating depth, some factory rifles LOVE to have the bullets seated 'wayy deep in the case like factory stuff...I've spent many many dollars playing with powder charges, most often fruitlessly. I can't count the times I've said, "got it!! the perfect 44.436gr load of XXXX!!!" only to find out the next day that Friend Wally W Federal is beating me yet again.
enjoy the journey
al
Good Luck
al
Bear with me please.
I sometimes hold informal reloading classes and my first assignment for beginning reloaders is "make a load that shoots better than the cheapest Federal loads from Walmart." This is harder than it looks
I would start by really assessing the amount you're resizing the cases, specifically in length. Try for minimal shoulder setback.Now this you're going to hate, but take 9 of those magic older rounds and shoot three 3-shot groups..... now overlay them.... do they REALLY agg under 1/4 inch?? I know, you're "wasting your good stuff" but hey, it ain't gonna' last forever!
Take heart, there's at least one person in the world (me) who believes that you CAN always match or beat factory loads for accuracy.... always. But sometimes it takes some careful assessment of your system. Again, it is my opinion that you can only go so far with "tuning the powder charge." Try something else. Try necksize-only, try making cases with fatter necks, try another loading die, play with seating depth, some factory rifles LOVE to have the bullets seated 'wayy deep in the case like factory stuff...I've spent many many dollars playing with powder charges, most often fruitlessly. I can't count the times I've said, "got it!! the perfect 44.436gr load of XXXX!!!" only to find out the next day that Friend Wally W Federal is beating me yet again.
enjoy the journey
al
Good Luck
al
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nhkuehl
Guest
Secret load
Al, I agree there is a lot that goes into reloading in case prep, technique, concentricity, seating depth, twist, etc., but there are some powder and primer combinations in a given case capacity behind a certain projectile that will just stand out. Put it in another rifle or change lots and it may not. There are few "one powder does it all" powders. A few that have recently been exceptional for me have been long range: (.308) 168 gr A-Max with Varget and Fed GM210M primers, (.243) 107 gr MatchKing with IMR4350 and Rem 9-1/2 primers, varmint loads: (6X47SM) 75 gr Sierra HP Moly with H4895 and Fed GM210M primers, and (6mm BR) 60 gr Sierra HP Moly with Rel-7 and CCI BR4 primers. Three things I see with each of these loads are the velocity has peaked, the SD is single digit, and it is in the node. - nhk
Al, I agree there is a lot that goes into reloading in case prep, technique, concentricity, seating depth, twist, etc., but there are some powder and primer combinations in a given case capacity behind a certain projectile that will just stand out. Put it in another rifle or change lots and it may not. There are few "one powder does it all" powders. A few that have recently been exceptional for me have been long range: (.308) 168 gr A-Max with Varget and Fed GM210M primers, (.243) 107 gr MatchKing with IMR4350 and Rem 9-1/2 primers, varmint loads: (6X47SM) 75 gr Sierra HP Moly with H4895 and Fed GM210M primers, and (6mm BR) 60 gr Sierra HP Moly with Rel-7 and CCI BR4 primers. Three things I see with each of these loads are the velocity has peaked, the SD is single digit, and it is in the node. - nhk
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2628
Guest
alinwa, Good information, all help is appreciated although you guy's lose me with the SD and in the node stuff. The thing I havn't tried yet is a chrono, as I don't have that, yet! Trying to match the speed is where I'm going next. I only get 21 grs of Varget and H4895 in the case and have a little room left over with the Hornady 75 bthp, the 75 A-Max is way long. I appreciate your statement "enjoy the journey" as this could get frustrating.
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nhkuehl
Guest
Sd
SD is standard deviation, which is more accurate than average or median. You'll need a chronograph. Since you can only get 21 grs in the case you must be restricted by magazine length(?).
When you shoot a series of groups accross a range of loads, increasing from minimum to maximum, you'll find there is a kind of roller coaster in the group sizes and you'll have a few good groups (nodes) accross the range, but one group always seems to stand out the most and that is generally where the SD is the smallest. The chronograph will give you that information as well as when your velocity peaks and additional powder doesn't increase velocity. It's a balance of case capacity and burn rate with barrel length.
The Nosler reloading manual gives load density and optimum loads for several powders. The Sierra manual also gives a load for accuracy. That's a good place to start. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm is a good place to look up powders by caliber. Everything is a guide line. - nhk
SD is standard deviation, which is more accurate than average or median. You'll need a chronograph. Since you can only get 21 grs in the case you must be restricted by magazine length(?).
When you shoot a series of groups accross a range of loads, increasing from minimum to maximum, you'll find there is a kind of roller coaster in the group sizes and you'll have a few good groups (nodes) accross the range, but one group always seems to stand out the most and that is generally where the SD is the smallest. The chronograph will give you that information as well as when your velocity peaks and additional powder doesn't increase velocity. It's a balance of case capacity and burn rate with barrel length.
The Nosler reloading manual gives load density and optimum loads for several powders. The Sierra manual also gives a load for accuracy. That's a good place to start. http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm is a good place to look up powders by caliber. Everything is a guide line. - nhk
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frwillia
Guest
And there are some standout loads that seem to be almost universal. I've seen my favorite .223 ground hog load shoot holes touching 3 shot groups over and over out of 3 different CZ527's, a Savage, a Browning, and a Remington 7. All had ~22 inch sporter barrels. Some bedded, some not, didn't seem to matter. 40g NBT seated ~0.020 off the lands, FL sized many times fired, or new, Win brass, 28.0g AA2460, CCI400 primer. 2460 isn't a powder I see in many manuals for the .223, but it sure works like a death ray for PBR GH hunting - I've killed 34 of them with this load so far this summer. Note: For whatever unknown reason, this load doesn't work nearly as well with 40g V-Max or 40g Sierra BK.
I've also seen a .22-250 load for the 55g NBT (came to my friend in MN out of a magazine article, he e-mailed it to me, I tried it, it works great for hunting) that seems to shoot in about anything I try it in (Savage LRPV set back to 24" barrel, Savage BVSS with 26" barrel, Winchester Coyote with 24" barrel). I haven't tried it in a Remington yet, but I may get a chance to do that yet this summer. Limited sample, all heavy barrels, but it shoots holes touching in all three.
And then I've seen rifles that wouldn't shoot anything well no matter what I did, till I rebarreled them.
I've also seen people shoot barrels to death looking for a load with no chance of succeeding because they ate the throat out of their rifle 1,00 rounds into their 3,000 round load testing marathon searching for the perfect load, then claim the rifle was a POS. Go figure?
Fitch
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Larry Elliott
Guest
I got a box of some older 75 gr Hornady HPBT factory loads, and out of curiousity pulled one down. The powder did look like 4895, but like most factory ammo is likely slightly proprietary (not available to us commoners) at least. I tried H4895, Varget, and RL-15 with 75 gr Hornady HPBT's in my AR, and found that RL-15 worked best in that rifle. At least with a bolt rifle it's easier to tell what the pressures are doing, I don't trust "pressure signs" in autoloaders of any kinds. I've tried Rem 7 1/2's but blanked (punctured) several of them and have gone back to WSR's. No change in accuracy or velocity although the WSR's flatten they don't pierce or otherwise give problems like the Rem's did.
Unless you want to spend a bunch extra on Lapua cases (which in .223 I don't think are any better than others) Winchester cases are hardest of the commercial cases. Recent LC headstamped cases are harder than a politicians heart and as uniform as commercial brass I've seen. Avoid Federal brass because it's soft and primer pockets will go sooner than any others.
Unless you want to spend a bunch extra on Lapua cases (which in .223 I don't think are any better than others) Winchester cases are hardest of the commercial cases. Recent LC headstamped cases are harder than a politicians heart and as uniform as commercial brass I've seen. Avoid Federal brass because it's soft and primer pockets will go sooner than any others.