Hi all , I have seen repeated mention of the use of Wolf primers as good stuff for some LRBR combo's .. We have no supply of the Wolf product in Australia but a company over here now is selling a primer called TULAMMO .. They say it's the same thing from the Wolf factory .. Question ,has anybody knowledge of this product and the quality or do i just use the suck it and see style..JR..Jeff Rogers
Help with primers?
- Thread starter a.JR
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This is from Powder Valley
Wolf small rifle primers
« Reply #4 on: 09:46 AM, 10/15/10 »QuoteWe just went through our inventory of Tula. By the way, Tula and Wolf are the exact same primer. The only thing difference is the color of the box and name. Everything else is exactly the same right down to the product codes.
The Small Rifle Mag and 223 primers are a brass color. The Small Rifle primers are a copper finish. They are much softer than the 223 and SRM.
Wolf small rifle primers
« Reply #4 on: 09:46 AM, 10/15/10 »QuoteWe just went through our inventory of Tula. By the way, Tula and Wolf are the exact same primer. The only thing difference is the color of the box and name. Everything else is exactly the same right down to the product codes.
The Small Rifle Mag and 223 primers are a brass color. The Small Rifle primers are a copper finish. They are much softer than the 223 and SRM.
B
Baron Graham
Guest
Jeff,
Just a little heads up on the Russian Primers. The Wolf Magnum Large Rifle will not set off Reloader25. I purchased 1000 of these primes to use with my Improved .300 WBY. All it will co is snap! I tried them in two BATs and a Custom Rem 700. No Luck! They work well in the .22-250 w/ Varget.
Baron
Just a little heads up on the Russian Primers. The Wolf Magnum Large Rifle will not set off Reloader25. I purchased 1000 of these primes to use with my Improved .300 WBY. All it will co is snap! I tried them in two BATs and a Custom Rem 700. No Luck! They work well in the .22-250 w/ Varget.
Baron
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Jeff,
You could find some lurking round Australia under the PMC brand - that was the importer here when Wolf first started in the States, before PMC went belly up. I have preferred their standard LR primers in the .308 for some time.
John
You could find some lurking round Australia under the PMC brand - that was the importer here when Wolf first started in the States, before PMC went belly up. I have preferred their standard LR primers in the .308 for some time.
John
Jeff,
I have it from German Salazar that the "magnum" designation in the Russian primers refers simply to cup strength, not priming compound. The priming compound is the same in both the LR magnum and LR -- just as with the SR and SR magnum.
I *think* German remarked that all the so-called "Russian" primers have the same manufacturer; he likes them quite a lot.
I've found happiness with the standard Russian LR primer in the BooBoo size case with H-4831-SC. Just out of curiosity, I tried them in a .338 Lapua size case (really, the .404 Jeffery necked down to .338), and had one "bang" and one "click-bang," but the case was pretty empty with only 79 grains of 4831, in a case that will physically hold 111 grains of 4831 -- that is not a load, just a capacity. BTW, the 79-grain charge of 4831 in that case works quite well with a Winchester WLR primer, though velocity is a bit low.
From the "what some guy said" data bank, the Russian primers apparently need to be seated pretty firmly. I am a bit surprised they don't work well for Baron with Rel-25, which usually lights off pretty easily, but again, that's a case with over 100 grains water capacity. The Boo is about 88 grains H2O, and the .338/404 holds 114 grains water.
Other "what some guy said" data is the cups may be a little short, so in some cases, with some firing pins, the hit is not firm enough, even with firm seating.
IIRC, you're down around Boo size case, Jeff. There is a fair chance they will work very well for you.
I have it from German Salazar that the "magnum" designation in the Russian primers refers simply to cup strength, not priming compound. The priming compound is the same in both the LR magnum and LR -- just as with the SR and SR magnum.
I *think* German remarked that all the so-called "Russian" primers have the same manufacturer; he likes them quite a lot.
I've found happiness with the standard Russian LR primer in the BooBoo size case with H-4831-SC. Just out of curiosity, I tried them in a .338 Lapua size case (really, the .404 Jeffery necked down to .338), and had one "bang" and one "click-bang," but the case was pretty empty with only 79 grains of 4831, in a case that will physically hold 111 grains of 4831 -- that is not a load, just a capacity. BTW, the 79-grain charge of 4831 in that case works quite well with a Winchester WLR primer, though velocity is a bit low.
From the "what some guy said" data bank, the Russian primers apparently need to be seated pretty firmly. I am a bit surprised they don't work well for Baron with Rel-25, which usually lights off pretty easily, but again, that's a case with over 100 grains water capacity. The Boo is about 88 grains H2O, and the .338/404 holds 114 grains water.
Other "what some guy said" data is the cups may be a little short, so in some cases, with some firing pins, the hit is not firm enough, even with firm seating.
IIRC, you're down around Boo size case, Jeff. There is a fair chance they will work very well for you.
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mike in co
Guest
pmc is not belly up....they were selling russian primers in thier name and packaging and quit doing so..thats all ,they are still in the ammo business.
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mike in co
Guest
i use the wolf/tula lines of primers pretty much exclusively.
high quality excellent prices.
my commercial ammo is all done with wolf/tula primers.
my own shooting is done with them also
i shoot 4831 with large rifle mag no issue with ignition or burn...just a tad under 70 gr ina 300 win mag case.
and yes if you ever get the sleeve packaging(5000 primers) it is quite clear they all come from the same factory....
mike in co
high quality excellent prices.
my commercial ammo is all done with wolf/tula primers.
my own shooting is done with them also
i shoot 4831 with large rifle mag no issue with ignition or burn...just a tad under 70 gr ina 300 win mag case.
and yes if you ever get the sleeve packaging(5000 primers) it is quite clear they all come from the same factory....
mike in co
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Sorry, I believed some misinformation from the net:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-230360.html
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mike in co
Guest
yes there was a pmc FACILITY in the usa, but the company is not home based here.
mike in co
mike in co
Dave Tooley
Active member
From experience you do need to make a conscious effort to deeply seat the primers or you'll get a click bang or just click. It happens to me whether it's a 308W or a 300 WM.
Dave
Dave
Not to be argumentative, but if you happen to have them around, I'd give them a try with cases up to 90 grains capacity (includes the WSM, etc.) They can work very well, for the same reason -- small, mild flame.
As always when you're working on the edge, you'll probably have to retest if anything changes, even powder lot. You may also have to accept occasional failure. If you get more than a couple failure to fires, or worse, hangfires, the only safe thing to do is to not use them.
BTW, I have no hard data that a 85- 90-grain capacity case is the limit. Rather the other way, I've used them successfully in a .308 Norma Magnum size case.
There are obvious things you can do to optimize their use, but if you know how to do such things, you've already figured that out. The only decision would be whether or not it is worth all the work. Not to me...
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mike in co
Guest
i'm not one to argue with dave t, but....words....
seat the primer...that does not mean to put it in the primer pocket, but to put it all the way to the bottom of the pocket(seated) and then a small crush.
as far as case size i shoot a 300 win mag with 4831 and wolf large rifle magnum primers..the gun shoots in the low 3's at 200 yds.....thats a tad under 70 grains.
mike in co
seat the primer...that does not mean to put it in the primer pocket, but to put it all the way to the bottom of the pocket(seated) and then a small crush.
as far as case size i shoot a 300 win mag with 4831 and wolf large rifle magnum primers..the gun shoots in the low 3's at 200 yds.....thats a tad under 70 grains.
mike in co
4
4Mesh
Guest
In temps of 50's F or lower, I'd avoid them like the plague in a big case. Anything shooting a powder suitable for a magnum is going to have troubles in colder weather (ime)
Hi Phil , No worries about the temp thing here ,i'd have to have an indoor 1K range with Aircon to get down that low . come to think of it probably a giant block of ice in front of the Aircon to get that low .. Just going into Autumn here now and cooling down to a barmy 100deg F .. I will put the Tula's with the 210Ms/215Ms/CCIBR2 and CCI250s that i use to test every new barrel and let the gun tell me which one it wants... JR..Jeff Rogers
Dave Tooley
Active member
mike
I thought that's kind of what I said. I know you have to be careful about which priming tool you use. With some tools there is no way to get this lot of primers deep enought to sensitize them.
Well I'm glad to hear all this stuff about seating...... I've got only 4 bricks of the things but I've had horrible results. I can't get them to ignite ANYthing including shotgun powder for fireforming. I've tried 'em in PPC/BR, WSM, .308/243/6.5X47L sized cases using powder from 'slow' to 'fast' and gotten such bad results I've tried to send them back several times but in each case I've been unable to find a shipper.......and I'm a guy who never sends anything back.
I'll try different crush settings. At least now I've got something else to try
al
I'll try different crush settings. At least now I've got something else to try
al
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
al,
I think that one issue with the Russian stuff is similar to what I occasionally experienced with the relatively softer Federal cups - they tend to bind on the wall of the pocket, particularly those batches with generous radius (radii?). I hit my straps with them when my thumbs got so buggered with arthritis that I had to go to the K & M dial gauge seater so I could "feel" the primer bottoming.
John
I think that one issue with the Russian stuff is similar to what I occasionally experienced with the relatively softer Federal cups - they tend to bind on the wall of the pocket, particularly those batches with generous radius (radii?). I hit my straps with them when my thumbs got so buggered with arthritis that I had to go to the K & M dial gauge seater so I could "feel" the primer bottoming.
John
In the for what it's worth department...
I have an old K&M tool that is a bit worn -- the ball, or whatever you call it that pushes up the primer seating plunger, has lost a tiny bit of material over the years. Just enough that it won't firmly seat the Russian primers in some Lapua cases. I have to use my newer K&M tool to fully seat them.
If you want to do it up brown, true the case heads. That removes just enough brass so the primer seats better; it is higher, so fits most firing pin protrusions better.
If you followed T.J. Jackson, you don't true the head until the case has been fireformed & hit with a full load once or twice. The notion is that even if the case goes a bit "banana" from wall thickness variation, the case head (read bolt thrust) is now perfect, even with a banana case. T.J. also bored the neck interior true to the centerline, so the two most important parts of the case -- the head and the neck -- now run true.
This may not be a solution for Al, because the headspace (head clearance) changes just a touch by taking material off the base -- by however many thousandths you take off the head. IIRC, Al doesn't like anything that takes away from the crush fit, ever.
If that sounds like a lot of work, it is. But I had a set of RWS .404 cases for Dave Tooley's .30 SHV that shot just a bit better when that was done. It seemed worth it, as a set of cases lasted about 50 loadings. Using gross generalities, RWS brass seems a bit tougher than Lapua, but isn't quite as true.
I have an old K&M tool that is a bit worn -- the ball, or whatever you call it that pushes up the primer seating plunger, has lost a tiny bit of material over the years. Just enough that it won't firmly seat the Russian primers in some Lapua cases. I have to use my newer K&M tool to fully seat them.
If you want to do it up brown, true the case heads. That removes just enough brass so the primer seats better; it is higher, so fits most firing pin protrusions better.
If you followed T.J. Jackson, you don't true the head until the case has been fireformed & hit with a full load once or twice. The notion is that even if the case goes a bit "banana" from wall thickness variation, the case head (read bolt thrust) is now perfect, even with a banana case. T.J. also bored the neck interior true to the centerline, so the two most important parts of the case -- the head and the neck -- now run true.
This may not be a solution for Al, because the headspace (head clearance) changes just a touch by taking material off the base -- by however many thousandths you take off the head. IIRC, Al doesn't like anything that takes away from the crush fit, ever.
If that sounds like a lot of work, it is. But I had a set of RWS .404 cases for Dave Tooley's .30 SHV that shot just a bit better when that was done. It seemed worth it, as a set of cases lasted about 50 loadings. Using gross generalities, RWS brass seems a bit tougher than Lapua, but isn't quite as true.
I have both sizes SRM for the dashers and 6.5x47 and LRM for the 7mm08 and use a K&M primer tool. Idid ouit using them for the click bang and 2 F Fire in the 47,went to the CCI and never a problem. I did mike the SRM wolf and found them smaller in diameter than the CCI. I do uniform the primer pockets and flatten them after they seat still the click bang so i have about 15K of them if somebody is interested.......jim