Heavy HG's at 600 Yard Competition

H

HUNTER3401

New member
There are a few of us at Piedmont Gun Range in NC trying some truely Heavy, Heavy Guns in IBS competition this year. Myself, Mike Davis, and Terry Brady. I would like to hear your experiences from you if you are trying a new HG at 600, either IBS or NBRSA. I am talking about rifles well over light gun weight of 17 pounds. I know some have tried some 1000 yard HG large calibers and Magnums at 600, but Mike Davis and I are trying out some 6mm's. A Dasher for me, a BRX for Mike. They sure showed some promise at our 600 yard "fun shot" in January at Piedmont,NC. The top 4 places were rifles of 28-60 pounds. Most guys have been and still are shooting there 17 pound LG's in HG.
600 yard competition is still relatively new. Nothing is set in stone as is in short range. I'm talking about the PPC's. We have experimented with heavy bullets in PPC's, 6x47 Lapua's, up through 6.5's and 300 Mags. that dominate 1000 yards. It seems like the BR case or its improved version is about perfect for 600 yards. We have about concluded that. Now we are experimenting on the HG's which are about unlimited in weight and configuration (except no "rail guns"). The only limit is they must me on "bags".
Mike and I talked about making truely HG's after the 2008 season. Mike had been thinking about the same thing I had for a while. No one to our knowledge had experimented with a small caliber HG (6BR,Dasher, Or BRX). We have about concluded over the past few years, these rounds on the BR case are the most accurate rounds day in-day out at 600 yard. We wondered if these small rounds had enough recoil to move a truely HG. Could the heavy stocks not move enough and cause flyers? It does not seem to be the case. My rifle moves about an inch and so far is showing more potential than anything I have shot (hope I don't have to eat my words later!).
Mike Davis's rifle is an Aluminum barrel blocked 6BRX that is shooting like a PPC does at 100 yards. Mike's rifle will shoot 5 shot groups at 100 in "0's". His rifle weighs @50-55 pounds. My rifle is a 6 Dasher. I converted my 1000 yard HG Shehan Maxi-Tracker with barrel block. It was a 6.5-284. It is shooting pretty regularly in the 1.5 inch range at 600 in decent conditions.
Seems like I saw where Lynn has a true HG Dasher on the West Coast. Let us know what HG you have and hear your experiences!
Samuel Hall
 
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Hi Sam, I have run a 68 lbs heavy gun over here in AUST now for 2 years at 600yd ..Although not anywhere as many comps and competitors as you have in the US it's obvious to us that the Heavy H/G 30 cals have a place in our weather conditions ..The little cartridges (6BR/ 6 Dasher etc ) have not come up at the top of the pile in either class except for one smallest group in Light..It would seem that the top results are from a cartridge with some more wind bucking power, in L/G the mid size 7mms (280 ack style)are at the top of the heap with day aggs of 2.6 ins ,the mid 30 cals are close (30x284).. In Heavy the 30cals in the 88 to 98 gns of H2O are ahead by miles ,the top 10 small groups in 2 years of competition belong to a modified 300 Win Mag with bullets in the 185 to 210 range.. I live in a Tropical enviroment with every match affected by mirage ,from just enough to annoy a southern traveling shooter through to a swimming mass that is hard to make out as a target,mabye the conditions we compete under have a bit to do with the results.. I don't have all the answers to your questions but i do welcolme the day that the guys over your way that put together the 3inch 1000yd H/G groups at HR and Williamsport try their hand at 600yds ..JR..Jeff Rogers
 
Samuel Hall

Sam
I'll tell you the story about Robert Hoppe's 0.5823 inch group and my 6BR at 65 pounds.
The day before our regularly scheduled match I shot 5 shots into a 0.095 or 0.093 group at 100 yards with my heavygun using Berger 105 BT Match bullets.I don't remember which number is correct as that target is at my gunsmiths shop hanging on the wall.
I went to the match thinking the gun was capable of setting a record and after we had shot a call came in from the pits saying a record had been shot but no name was given.
I was putting on my best humble face which as anyone will tell you is tough on me fully knowing Ed Eckhoff would soon announce I had broken some kind of record only to hear Mr Robert Hoppe had just shot his amazing lightgun group at 0.5823 inches.
My heavyguin experience with the standard 6BR is it will move a all aluminum gun at 65 pounds right around 1 inch using 31.5 grains of Varget behind a heavy bullet.
The biggest obstacle I have noticed is pin point aiming of the gun.With the lightguns you can squeeze or adjust them to absolutely zero and on the heavyguns I have a tendency to use close enough instead of absoutely perfect point of aim.
If you get lazy at all you will immediately see it on the targets.
I used the gun at the 600 yard nationals one year and the action was falling off so that was my fault and not the guns.If the weather is real good this year I plan on trying it again but if the wind is kicking up I will use my 300 Ackley or a tensioned barreled gun set-up from aJR above in 300 WSM.
Lynn
 
Lynn

I did call the line that a record was shot, but did not say Who shot it.

I will sell you my winning "tube gun" from last year if you do not want me to shoot it in this years match.

Jerry
 
Jerry Tierney

Hey Champ
I've been reading a book about the wind for 4 months now.I keep getting to page 5-6 and simply pass out.It is the most boring book I ever attempted to read in my life.
Are we shooting sunday or is it raining?
Lynn
 
Lynn,

Do you have a brake on the Heavy 6mm? If not, why not?

Jay, Idaho
 
6mm heavy gun

Thomas Ellington shoot at hawks ridge 1000yd. 6 dasher. I watched him shoot his heavy gun and it moves back very little but i guess this depends on how tight your bags are and how slick they are. The 6 dasher works for him at 1000yd. He finished second in 10 match group aggs. At hawks ridge this year.
 
Jay,Idaho and DJ300Ack

Jay
I don't have any muzzlebrakes accept on my 50bmg's because I shoot with the tuners in place.The tuner on my 6BR heavygun weighs a touch more than 3 pounds.
I have a titanium muzzlebrake for my 50 bmg and the bare piece of titanium cost over $300 and the machining was real expensive.

DJ300Ack
I agree with your movement numbers as well.I use the blue backing material off of the stock tape and put it on my bags using double sided carpet tape.This allows for very easy gun movement in the bags.
Lynn
 
Lynn and a.JR

Thanks for your replys guys!
Lynn, just wondering what kind of set up your Hg is? Stock, action configuration and rest?
You were talking about making adjustments to pin point accuracy. I am trying at this time to get my rest set up where it will track exactly back after each shot. Now, it comes off the center of the bull about 1/2-1 inch occasionally at 600 yards. Not much, but enought to have to take time to make adjustments (Of course, if I see a wind or mirage change I will adjust for that). My movement is due to my wobbly speed screw I believe.
Also, you were talking about the Berger 105BT's you were shooting. I have found they will drill small hole at short range, but will start opening up more than the VLD's at long range when any wind is moving. The Berger 105VLD's buck any wind better in my opinion if your rifle will shot them.
a.JR,
I understand what you are talking about with the harsh conditions you shoot under. I use to shoot a 6.5-284 at 600 and won a few times and it was usually when the wind was rough. I only shoot 6's now, but have seen days when I wish I had my 6.5 or even a 300. But, it seems that most of the time at our range in NC even when the wind has blown over 30mph with gust up to 50mph the 6mm's have held there own with the larger calibers (could be most people here shoot 6's too?). But I contribute the 6's keeping up with the larger calibers because the 6's can be shot faster when needed compared to the larger calibers. When the wind is really blowing and changing some shooters can get 5 shots down range in 15 seconds with the 6's. (we all don't have the great wind reading capability as Jerry Tiereny (Sp?). I take more time in good conditions, but when the wind picks up I will "run'em", making windage adjustments as I am shooting.
Samuel Hall
 
Hunter3401

Sam
I am using a G-G stock made by Gary Alvey.It is one solid billet of aluminum carved into a stock.The tracking rails are part of the stock not added on as is the barrel block.The only two things that come off the stock are the top of the barrel block and the trigger guard.
The rest is a complete system.It is one piece while setting up then you remove a small center section to make it legal.
The action is a BAT right bolt left port right eject.

I discussed the BT VLD bullets today with Gary Childs and he completely agrees with you.The BT's will outshoot the VLD's at 100,200,300 but will open up further out.

Another thing not mentioned is I shoot NBRSA which means 10 shots in heavygun not 5.The 1.450 barrels don't seem to mind 30 rounds plus sighters like they would with a hotrod cartridge.

Getting back to my point of aim comment my stock is absolutely parallel and perpindicular with regards to the tracking rails alignment.As long as you zero out the rest system so it doesn't have any left/right in the front or rear sections nothing will bind up the gun.
What happens is you can't make any corrections at all to your point of aim by pushing on the gun itself.The gun weighs 65 pounds and the bags are quite stiff plus I put 4 bags of lead shot(100 pounds) onto the rest system to make sure it is solid.
This means all of your adjustments are in the knobs of the rest system.In that situation it becomes very easy to adjust the gun to "close enough" instead of perfect.
Lynn
 
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