Heavy Gun Rails

Tod Soeby

New member
I am looking at re-doing my front-rear rail system on my HG. Gun (300 WSM, 1.45 x 31, Bruce Baer 5" laminated thumb hole HG stock with aluminum rail system , 6" in front, 1 1/2 inch in back) weighs in at 39 LBS with some lead in the rear of the stock. I was thinking of going with SS instead of aluminum to add some weight.

My question is the rails themselfs. Which is better.....rounded rails or sharp rails? The current setup has a sharp 60 degree beveled rails.

Also....1 1/2 inch or 3 inch rear rails?

I see mostly rounded rails out there. And the 3" rear rails are usualy behind 8" front rails.

I also thought about running the rail out past the front of the stock by about 2 -3 inches. The rails themselfs would be about 10-12", but I would then run the SS all the way back to the trigger gaurd (with holes drilled out to get to the action screws) to help add some weight further back, but also to help ballance the gun better.

I was thinking about 1/2 inch SS + the rails.

Any thoughts????

Thanks,
Tod Soeby

I will try and get the rear as heavy as i can also.
 
I make these

P1010020.jpg


ewallace1@cablespeed.com
 
Tod,

I shoot the SS Baer Rails on the HG in these photos:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jswb1990/ggvg/

It is the 60 degree chamfer style with 6" wide front and 2-1/2" wide rear. Both plates started 1" thick. BAT 2" Model M with 1.45 straight taper, no lead about 68#. The current barrel is 300 WBY and it has won lots of score relays, has a 2nd place IBS Nationals finish and a 5th place World Open finish. The system works. BTW, I do not shoot off the blue rest in the photo, it was traded off for something more substantial.

Also have a 338 Lapau Improved HG on the Maxi Tracker Aluminum setup. These rails are flat bottomed and 1/2" thick at the outer edge. Front is 8" wide and rear is 3" wide.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jswb1990/4Sale/

I have shot this rifle in just 2 matches, also weighs about 70# and is also very stable.

I am not convinced one geometry is better than the other, or the circular bottomed rails are inferior in any way. Just have to set everything up properly.

Eric should be able to make anything you want and is experienced at our game.

Good luck!

Jeff
 
Jeff,

What is the total weight of your setup on the red HG ? Yours is very similar to mine, except I have a Bat "L" 10 x 2". Is your gun front heavy? Like I said, mine weighs in at 39 LBS with the aluminum rails and a NF scope and some lead poard in the butt.

By the way, I checked my rear rail, it is 1" , not 1 1/2 " wide.

Thanks,
Tod
 
Tod, it was 65# when I got it with a tapered barrel (there is no lead or other weight added). The barrel channel has been opened up now for 1.450" barrels so I am guessing right around 68# with NF BR scope. My rear rail is 2-1/2" wide.

It is definately front heavy but not ridiculously so. I use a rifle stop underneath which takes me back to battery with about 2 to 2-1/2" of the front of the plate hanging over the front of the rest. Seems to like shooting there.
 
Tod,
I've been busy and just now seeing your post here. I'll add my 2 cents worth based on my experience with the heavy beasts. Which is my favorite class to shoot in BTW.

My question is the rails themselfs. Which is better.....rounded rails or sharp rails? The current setup has a sharp 60 degree beveled rails.

first let me say that the front to rear weight distribution for a HG that is on the heavy side isn't as critical as a LG. My LG I have a specific place that I index to place it in the front bag when firing. HG jsut isn't that critical because you are talking about a lot more weight to begin with. Maybe you only have 25% rear weight. But 25% of my current 74# HG is 18.5#. That is obviously more than the total weight of a LG. For the record my current HG is more than 25% on the rear, but I don't have the exact numbers either. But 18.5# is nothing to sneeze at for weight on a rear rest.

Over the years I've tried about everything. My next to last HG had round drill round blanks glued into milled slots into an old Six fiberglass stock. 2 rails in the front (1/2" dia x 5" long approx) and 1 larger one in the back (3/4" diameter x 5" long approx). There was also weight added to the rear of this rifle along with the steel glued sleeve used to bed the first 12-14" of the barrel. Total weight was around 40-45# if I remember correctly. I never really got comfortable with the round rails. The tracking part was jsut fine. But when making windage adjustments you always had to settle your rifle into the bags more with the rounded rails than a square rail rifle IMO. Because the rounded rails I believe would ride up and over the area of the sand bag that was holding it in place.
So on to my current HG. Don't know if you are familar with my setup or not so I'll give you the 10 cent tour. McMillan HBR stock (5" front and 1 3/4" rear??), standard pillar bedded BAT 2x10 action with multiple 30" barrels for it (6.5x55AI, 30 BooBoo, 338 Yogi), and my rails are about what you are talking about. I have (2) 303 SS plates bolted to my stock. In the front the plate is 5/8 x 5 x front of trigger guard to end of forarm in length. Then I have (2) 1/2 square rails screwed into the SS plate. These had been polished with a buffing wheel. On the rear I have a 1/2 thick 303 SS plate that is 1 3/4" wide by the length of the buttstock. There are 2 more 1/2" sqaure rails screwed into this plate also.
I have shimmed these plates and worked on these rails to slick them up to make for a smooth ride over the years. FYI.. I've used this setup and tweeked it sinse this rifle was first built in '99. The weight of these SS plates and rails is #22 of extra weight on my rifle. It does make it sit higher so you have to adjust your shooting posture and stool height to accomidate for it. But after all these years of tweeking and working on it, I've got it now to where if it doesn't return into the 4" white patch everytime I know that I have done something wrong myself in pushing the rifle back forward with my shoulder. And you can disrupt and control a 74# rifle. I don't care what anyone says about HGs. Oh, anyone can shoot that thing. Yea they can... but it still takes the nut behind the bolt to "shoot" it and you do have to pay attention to these guns a lot more than the average man thinks. Example... if your front and rear rests are 24" apart C-to-C and you move the rear rest .0006" in any one direction.... that is worth 1" at 1000yds. As you can see it doesn't take much to move .0006". And the current world record is jsut over 3".



Also....1 1/2 inch or 3 inch rear rails?

I really don't think you will see of feel a difference between them. The 3" will obviously give you more leverage to counteract agaisnt the rifle twisting while operatiing the bolt. But if your disrupting the rifle that much while reloading the rifle your going to need a lot more than 3". Work on the sticky extraction and smooth bench technique rather than trying to control it mechanically. As I said above I've got 1 3/4 on the rear of mine and if it doesn't return to battery.... its my fault all the way in the gun handling.

Work on your bench technique with a video camera while blowing out case or practicing. You would be surprised what you can see in slow motion. Every move you make at the bench should be deliberate and smooth. That will quickly turn into instinctive motion and you will then have good spped at the bench. I can rip 10 round down range a lot faster than needed. I have to force myself to slow down now it so smooth.

I'll try to dig up some picture to post of my setup for you to reference.

Good luck!

Steve

P.S. Eric its been awhile sinse I've heard from you.

Tod, adding a comment here.... take note of Jeff's suggestion about adding your stop on the bottom of your rifle and not at the end of the forarm. Simple geometry says less leverage equals less diruption of your front rest when 74# gets moving forward and you try to stop it. That was one of the first things I did to improve my setup after the initial build. It will be a work in progress for awhile as you figure things out and improve them. Then the system jsut starts working really good.
 
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Found a pic

Tod,
Attaching a picture here of my setup to give you some more reference to go by showing where my rifle is placed in the rest during firing. As mentioned above the rifles weights 74# as it sits right there and those SS plates and rails added 22# of that total weight.
Dave Tooley's HG is exactly like mine but without the SS plates. He simply glued square rails (turned 45 degrees) into his forarm and buttstock. His setup obviously works good also around the 50# mark on the scales. I've shot his and feel comfortable with it also.

Except he had the action made bass-ackwards with the bolt on the wrong side. :rolleyes:

Hope this helps.

Steve
 

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I do use a bottom post stop. I like it a whole lot better than the standard stop. It is definatly a better way to go!!

Tod
 
Tod
I just finished a heavygun with the same stock as Steve Shelp.For the tracking rail in the rear I went with 2.5 inches because all my other guns are 2.5 inches in the rear and I want to be able to swap guns in a hurry.My stock had a 2.25 rear buttstock and under the pistol grip it is round.
I made a template out of stiff paper and took it down to my local Tap Plastic store.For under $20 they made me a HDPE rail 3/4 inch thick and I attached it with 2 stainless steel screws countersunk.I first used 2 pieces of double sided carpet tape to hold it into place and to help align it.My stock wasn't very flat on the bottom so I ended up leaving the tape in place.

For the front rails I used a piece 6 inches wide by 1 inch thick and 16 inches long.It cost me $9 so I also bought two pieces of 1x1x16 and some of there two part epoxy.I had the kid in the store bevel the outside edge of the 6 inch piece 45 degrees with his router for an additional $10.

You can have them route out the center 4 inches a half inch deep which would give you 1 inch outer rails and you would skip the epoxy step.
It doesn't add alot of weight maybe 4-5 pounds tops but they are extremely strong very cheap and smooth as silk.
I like the stuff so much I ended up buying a sheet 4 feet by 8 feet by 1 inch thick.My latest rails are now 18 inches wide and my front rest top is made out of HDPE.
Waterboy
 
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steve sir,is there a particular bag lube you favor for leather bags? tim in tx
 
steve sir,is there a particular bag lube you favor for leather bags? tim in tx

Hey Tim,
I "buffed" my leather bag to where the raw leather is more shiny than normal and simply use graphite. Then work it in and do not wipe it off between matches. It's messy but works for me. Also another advantage to square rails..... when adding lube I simply dump the graphite alongside of the square rails and let it build up. Then simply lift up the whole front or rear of the rifle and left the lube fall into the bottom of the rails evenly. You can't use graphite sparringly though. Don't be shy.

I use a buffing wheel to touch up my rails on bottom so they are pretty smooth also. Hope this helps.

Steve
 
thanks steve i do apreciate it sir.i will try it soon.great thread and very helpful. tim in tx
 
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