Headstock Run-out?

H

huntinco

Guest
How do u adjust the run out in the headstock? I have spoken with the service department several times and there English is sooooooooo terrible that I can hardly understand a damn word out of their mouth…. They also tell me there is no service manual just a parts manual, which I already have. Any help would be appreciated.

My lathe is a victor 1640
 
huntinco said:
How do u adjust the run out in the headstock? I have spoken with the service department several times and there English is sooooooooo terrible that I can hardly understand a damn word out of their mouth…. They also tell me there is no service manual just a parts manual, which I already have. Any help would be appreciated.

My lathe is a victor 1640
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Runnout is a product and is usually caused by bad headstock bearings unless the thrust adjustment is too loose.

Check bearing thrust movement by placing a 3/8 dia. inch rod in headstock chuck and tailstock chuck with dial indicator against headstock chuck face. Lightly move tailstock forward/reverse while observing dial indicator. More than a couple .001 movement (or check to mfgs. spec.) indicates loose bearings in thrust direction.

If loose, remove bearing covers and headstock gear cover to expose bearing adjuster and lock nuts (similar to automobile wheel bearings but larger). Adjust to manufacturing specs. or no less than a couple of .001 if ballparking, than recheck for runnout.

If bearings are tight for thrust and excessive runnout is still present, new bearings are then required......................Don
 
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huntinco said:
How do u adjust the run out in the headstock? I have spoken with the service department several times and there English is sooooooooo terrible that I can hardly understand a damn word out of their mouth…. They also tell me there is no service manual just a parts manual, which I already have. Any help would be appreciated.

My lathe is a victor 1640
Click to expand...
Another thing to check if Don's bearing adjustment does not solve the problem. If you have a faceplate, install it and see if you have wobble. i.e. set a dial indicator to check if the faceplate is wobbling left and right. If so, you may have a bent spindle shaft. Be aware that if you have a bent spindle shaft it may also be fractured and could cause the chuck to fly off while you are machining.

We had that happen one time on a 25HP NC lathe running about 1500 rpm....not good..
 
I bought a nice used Jet that the owners 21 year old "machinest" convinced him it had a wornout head stock, brought it home, set it up, pulled the 3 jaw chuck off (D1-4) to check runout found a double hand full of shavings/crap,,,, cleaned that baby up, checked runout and needle on dial didn't hardly quiver,,,,,,,,,,

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
 
J. Pendergraft said:
Wow Jerry, What did it destroy? No human's in it's path I hope.
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No one got hurt. It was a new American Pacemaker 2514S we had just installed and were running horsepower tests on it.

An example of a 25 HP cut in 125,000 tensile steel, is a 0.5" depth of cut (per side), 0.045 Inches per Revolution at 200 Surface Feet per Minute.

Needless to say American installed a new spindle shaft. This one, we Zygloed and Magnifluxed it before they put it in.

Too much emphasis can't be put on safety when shooting or dealing with machine tools!!!
 
Dave Tooley..

Per the GTR bolt sleeving video I purchased I was trying to make a part that is close to the same ID as the bolt face that centers off the firing pin hole. All was going well, the first part went fine and there was ½ ten-thousand run out. Then I needed to turn the part around and bore a 60- degree hole in the other end of the part so the live center in the tail- stock could run on it. Well, when I turned the part around and tried to dial it in, I am unable to get any less than one thousands run out. Rotating by hand I can stop the part in any position and tap the top of chuck with two fingers and the dial indicator will drop/ move 5 ten thousands. I’m using a 3 -jaw buck chuck.
Thanks
Justin
 
Justin,

You need either a 4 jaw chuck or an adjust tru 3 jaw chuck to be able to do what you are trying. I have an adjust tru and use it about 90% of the time on my lathe. With the adjust tru you can dial it right in for zero runout. Even if your chuck ran perfectly true for a 1" diameter part it likely would not run true for a different diameter part. The scrolls can't be perfect.

As an option you could use some thin shims between the jaw and part but it could be time consuming to get the runout to zero.
 
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The buck chuck is a 3 jaw but the chuck itself is adjustable 4 ways
 
huntinco said:
Dave Tooley..

Per the GTR bolt sleeving video I purchased I was trying to make a part that is close to the same ID as the bolt face that centers off the firing pin hole. All was going well, the first part went fine and there was ½ ten-thousand run out. Then I needed to turn the part around and bore a 60- degree hole in the other end of the part so the live center in the tail- stock could run on it. Well, when I turned the part around and tried to dial it in, I am unable to get any less than one thousands run out. Rotating by hand I can stop the part in any position and tap the top of chuck with two fingers and the dial indicator will drop/ move 5 ten thousands. I’m using a 3 -jaw buck chuck.
Thanks
Justin
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Looks like you have a process problem. Using what Joel is calling an adjust tru is exactly what you appear to have.

http://www.buckchuckusa.com/products/manual-chucks-atsc-3-jaw.html

As to process, any time you get within 0.0005" on any kind of universal chuck you are flying over high cotton.

Sometimes on some workpieces you can get closer but don't count on it.

In reality you can't expect much closer repeatability than that with a collet.

Usually a bigger problem with the 4-way adjustables, 3-jaw or 6-jaw, is that if you try to adjust very far with the 4-way screws you throw the chuck body so far out of balance that your lathe will vibrate from this imbalance at higher speeds.
 
If u had a bent Spindle can you true up the face or is this not advised?
 
huntinco said:
If u had a bent Spindle can you true up the face or is this not advised?
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If you have a bent spindle, that condition has a cause. Was it a wreck. Was it a bad wreck?

Lathe spindles made in America were made from a chrome-moly or chrome-vanadium steel that was hardened then precision ground. This gives a very stiff spindle shaft which in turn helps dampen vibrations and adds strength.

Think about the design of a lathe spindle. It is usually thin walled to give a big spindle bore diameter. If this thin walled spindle is bent, it sometimes fractures. If it is fractured, it will break. Just a matter of time as to when.

I can't speak for the construction of the imports. But, if you have a bent spindle, I'd take it out and have it checked. An automotive machine shop usually has equipment to check for fractures (crankshafts, etc).
 
Shelley Davidson could make this thing work!! I might be the problem and not the lathe
 
huntinco said:
I took some pics, tell me what ya think..
Thanks for the help!!!!!
Click to expand...

Just interpeting the pictures without knowing what you are showing, it looks like the spindle nose is out some and the tail end runs true. The tail end is not really important becuause of obvious reasons.

One thing it looks like is the spindle nose taper has some dings on it. Is that true or am I seeing reflections? (the outside taper not the bore taper) If it does have dings, take a good hard, flat stone, like a hard arkansas and with the spindle revolving at about 300-600 rpm, stone off the rough places. That tapered cone is very important to workholder (chucks, collets, etc) alignment,

Looks like the spindle bore is running out some. Not significant yet as to doing gun work.

The spindle face looks like a runout of about 0.0025"?

That poor slindle looks like it has seen a rough time. Like being used on an oil rig for 50 years. But I don't really see enough damage to point to where a wreck was bad enough to fracture the spindle shaft.

You could take a skim cut, just barely clean up, the spindle face but then the nose cone would still be out.

For now, unless I am missing something, I'd run it and do gun work.

How much machine vibration do you get with your Buck chuck installed and the movable body of the chuck indicated closely and the chuck jaws removed? Run this jawless chuck at about 800 rpm or so (staying out of the way!). If there is minimum vibration run the rpm on up and notice for vibration.

That is a gear-head lathe so don't confuse gear noise for vibration. Also, perform this test with the pick-gear box in neutral (the box where you select feedrates and threads). There will be a lever where you reverse feed and thread directions. That is a 3 position lever. Put it to where your lead screw is not turning.

This could give clues to further damage, but I don't really expect you to find any though.
 
replace the bearing's

if the dti move like that once you have set the per load up ! you set per- load with the ring on the rear end of spindle , lossern the set screw the titern the nut so you can just trun the spindle buy hand when its out of gear ! loock the set srcew and repeat your check's as per the photo with the spindle running at appro 120rpm

if the reading dont redauce a lot then you will need new bearing wich is not a big job ( if you can change a car wheel bearing you'll be ok )
 
Jerry

Isn't that spindle nose hardened? I think I touched one one mine once and sparks flew.

As far as the chuck running out, all it will take to get it true, assuming it's out now, is a clean up cut on the adapter plate. That's what the instruction say to do when you get it. Shelly probaly did that when he bought the chuck. To deal with the spindle face plate being off,after truing the adapter plate, I would take finger nail polish and put a spot on the chuck and a spot on the spindle to locate everything back to the same place when I take the chuck on and off. That works for me.

FWIW
A light just came on. After looking at the pictures again I noticed the spindle is oriented in the same position in regards to the extremes, whether checking internally or on the face.

Dave
 
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Dave Tooley said:
Jerry

Isn't that spindle nose hardened? I think I touched one one mine once and sparks flew.

As far as the chuck running out, all it will take to get it true, assuming it's out now, is a clean up cut on the adapter plate. That's what the instruction say to do when you get it. Shelly probably did that when he bought the chuck. To deal with the spindle face plate being off,after truing the adapter plate, I would take finger nail polish and put a spot on the chuck and a spot on the spindle to locate everything back to the same place when I take the chuck on and off. That works for me.

FWIW
A light just came on. After looking at the pictures again I noticed the spindle is oriented in the same position in regards to the extremes, whether checking internally or on the face.

Dave
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Dave,that is the problem of spindle shafts. In the US they were hardened, then drawn back slightly. The manufacturer wanted the spindle to be strong and not springy. They also wanted the nose and face to be hard enough to wear for decades. So much for good old US iron.

I can't speak for the Victor. Is it Taiwanese? IF so, it will be hard too. Probably 50 RC or better.

As to the Buck Adjust Tru chucks all I ever saw came with the backplate already assembled. I never ordered many because we never put much utility in having adjustable universal (scroll) chucks. Running a 24/7 shop and machining mostly 300 series stainless steels, some Hastaloy and Inconel, we used independent 4-jaw chucks. An independent 4-jaw will hold much better and a good machinist can true up a workpiece in a 4-jaw about as quick.

The spindle face can still be honed with a hard arkansas or Carborundum stone to get the nicks off.

The "D" spindle noses should have a witness mark or something. Our Americans and Monarchs had the cam-locks numbered and there was a witness mark on each chuck for that lathe. Bit, no one ever went by those alignment aids. Like I said, we put the workpiece in a 4-jaw and had at it.

What I think I am seeing looks like cone-point set screw marks on the nose cone??? Where did they come from I wonder??
 
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