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Peter
Guest
Looking at buying a mill, any reason not to purchase Grizzly G3103? Floor space is a consideration.http://grizzly.com/products/Vertical-Mill-w-Table-Power-Feed/G3103
Peter,
I purchased the 3102 Grizzly at the first of the year, and am extremely pleased with it. It is a very nice machine and has plenty of capacity for my uses.
The 3103 is the same machine with the added feature of a power up and down. As for floor space, it takes a minimal amount in my shop, about the same as my retired drill press.
I think you'll be pleased with your selection.
I purchased the 3102 Grizzly at the first of the year, and am extremely pleased with it. It is a very nice machine and has plenty of capacity for my uses.
The 3103 is the same machine with the added feature of a power up and down. As for floor space, it takes a minimal amount in my shop, about the same as my retired drill press.
I think you'll be pleased with your selection.
R
remmy700
Guest
626 Mill
I have one, it is marketed by Chester but there are others out there by grizzly, warco etc, all Chinese made and Chinese quality.
I would sell mine in a minute, if you are used to a bridgeport, TOS or similar machines you will know what I mean.
It sits quite low, so if you are tall you will need to add some height to the base.
I find mine vibrates alot giving a poor finish.
There is a Yahoo group which deals in depth with this machine, gives modifications like improving quill slop, adding DRO's, increasing chuck to table height (inserting a spool piece) etc etc.
Re limited floor space, it almost takes up as much space as the real thing.
I have a manual in pdf format if you want it let me know.
Remmy
I have one, it is marketed by Chester but there are others out there by grizzly, warco etc, all Chinese made and Chinese quality.
I would sell mine in a minute, if you are used to a bridgeport, TOS or similar machines you will know what I mean.
It sits quite low, so if you are tall you will need to add some height to the base.
I find mine vibrates alot giving a poor finish.
There is a Yahoo group which deals in depth with this machine, gives modifications like improving quill slop, adding DRO's, increasing chuck to table height (inserting a spool piece) etc etc.
Re limited floor space, it almost takes up as much space as the real thing.
I have a manual in pdf format if you want it let me know.
Remmy
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The only response I can make to the last post is this:
Not all of us have the finances available to afford a bridgeport mill, not all of us do enough volume of milling to justify the cost of a Bridgeport mill, and not all of us require the accuracy of a Bridgeport mill.
This is where the less expensive machines allow us "nose-pickers" to have a machine that fits our needs. I purchased my mill to serve as both deluxe drill press with movable table, and to use for the inletting of gunstocks. I do not believe the accuracy of a Bridgeport is required to perform these operations. Hell, I used to inlet using a router with jigs and a router table with a fence. I've produced some winning rifles using these methods.................it just takes a LOT more time than using a mill. It doesn't take a micrometer to inlet a gunstock, that's what bedding compounds are for.
Not all of us have the finances available to afford a bridgeport mill, not all of us do enough volume of milling to justify the cost of a Bridgeport mill, and not all of us require the accuracy of a Bridgeport mill.
This is where the less expensive machines allow us "nose-pickers" to have a machine that fits our needs. I purchased my mill to serve as both deluxe drill press with movable table, and to use for the inletting of gunstocks. I do not believe the accuracy of a Bridgeport is required to perform these operations. Hell, I used to inlet using a router with jigs and a router table with a fence. I've produced some winning rifles using these methods.................it just takes a LOT more time than using a mill. It doesn't take a micrometer to inlet a gunstock, that's what bedding compounds are for.
R
remmy700
Guest
Not all of us have the finances available to afford a bridgeport mill,
The bridgeport mill I bought (used) cost less than the 626, so finance in this case was not an issue.
I guess that it comes down to the funds you have available and if you are going to do more than just gun work with it.
Bridgeport parts in this country are plentiful, have you tried to get parts for a chinese import recently??
The bridgeport mill I bought (used) cost less than the 626, so finance in this case was not an issue.
I guess that it comes down to the funds you have available and if you are going to do more than just gun work with it.
Bridgeport parts in this country are plentiful, have you tried to get parts for a chinese import recently??
S
Shiraz Balolia
Guest
Grizzly has the largest stock of machinery parts for its machines in the USA. 35,000 sq feet warehouse dedicated to parts. You may be at a disadvantage in Scotland (assuming that is your location since it is on your posting).
Grizzly machines...
I own both a Grizzly Mill and Lathe. I have used and have access to old American iron. The Grizzly machines that I have were both made in Taiwan and have served me well. In 6 years of use, I have more than paid for both machines. I have talked with the parts department on numerous occassions. Some questions they have answered and some they have not. Their service has been good in my opinion. I would not hesitate to buy another Grizzly Machine. They fit the need and are available. I don't always agree with Shiraz but he has given me his ear from time to time. He is a fellow shooter and has some idea of the shooter and gunsmiths needs. It appauls me that there of folks who bad mouth a make of machinery that they don't own or have ever personally used. The reason we are having to use import machinery in America is that we have allowed the destruction of the infastructure to make such equipment at an afordable price. I am thankful to Shiraz and others who import the less expensive lines of machinery. Again they fill a need. If you want and need old American iron then go out and buy old American iron. You will spend more time and money restoring this machinery than buying a new piece of import machinery.
Rustystud
a/k/a Nat Lambeth
I own both a Grizzly Mill and Lathe. I have used and have access to old American iron. The Grizzly machines that I have were both made in Taiwan and have served me well. In 6 years of use, I have more than paid for both machines. I have talked with the parts department on numerous occassions. Some questions they have answered and some they have not. Their service has been good in my opinion. I would not hesitate to buy another Grizzly Machine. They fit the need and are available. I don't always agree with Shiraz but he has given me his ear from time to time. He is a fellow shooter and has some idea of the shooter and gunsmiths needs. It appauls me that there of folks who bad mouth a make of machinery that they don't own or have ever personally used. The reason we are having to use import machinery in America is that we have allowed the destruction of the infastructure to make such equipment at an afordable price. I am thankful to Shiraz and others who import the less expensive lines of machinery. Again they fill a need. If you want and need old American iron then go out and buy old American iron. You will spend more time and money restoring this machinery than buying a new piece of import machinery.
Rustystud
a/k/a Nat Lambeth
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remmy700
Guest
Grizzly has the largest stock of machinery parts for its machines in the USA
Well Shiraz if I need a part or two I will not hesitate to give you a call, (if I keep it that is).
When I was looking for a lathe, I did contemplate asking if you could get one of your boats to thrown one off the side as it passed by the UK!!
Well Shiraz if I need a part or two I will not hesitate to give you a call, (if I keep it that is).
When I was looking for a lathe, I did contemplate asking if you could get one of your boats to thrown one off the side as it passed by the UK!!
Rustystud,
Congratulations on your ability to put into words what my original thoughts were! There is a place for the import machines that Grizzly and others are importing. Remember the Atlas mini-lathes that were on the market 40 to 50 years ago? While they weren't large robust machines, they allowed many hobbyists the ability to machine parts witjout a huge outlay of cash. I'm certain that they also allowed many folks to learn the basics of machining, and that some went on to purchase larger and more sophisticated machines. There is always room for an entry-level machine that is affordable, and not all folks need or expect the precision that is inherent in the more costly machines. That is not to say that the import manufacturers don't make high-quality highly accurate machines, but as always, you get what you pay for. There is a market for the full range of machinery that the importers are providing. Can you say the same for the domestic manufacturers?
Congratulations on your ability to put into words what my original thoughts were! There is a place for the import machines that Grizzly and others are importing. Remember the Atlas mini-lathes that were on the market 40 to 50 years ago? While they weren't large robust machines, they allowed many hobbyists the ability to machine parts witjout a huge outlay of cash. I'm certain that they also allowed many folks to learn the basics of machining, and that some went on to purchase larger and more sophisticated machines. There is always room for an entry-level machine that is affordable, and not all folks need or expect the precision that is inherent in the more costly machines. That is not to say that the import manufacturers don't make high-quality highly accurate machines, but as always, you get what you pay for. There is a market for the full range of machinery that the importers are providing. Can you say the same for the domestic manufacturers?
M
mike82352
Guest
I have the HF version of the G3103 and I'm very pleased with it. I can not see any differance other than the paint and hand wheels. I did see a grizzly taken apart and it was red on the inside. (Same color as the HF) I added a VFD and rewired my mill from the start(Love the VFD) I also just got the grizzly G4003G lathe, very nice. I know it's not good old american iron, but I got tired of trying to find a good one that I could afford. I'm no machinest, but I love playing around with this stuff and I could not justify the money for a play thing. I plan on doing a couple of gun barrels and whatever else I can think of.
Mike
Mike
I've heard rumors that all of the Chinese machines are made in the same plant with the only difference being the nameplate and the color. I cannot attest to the accuracy of this rumor, but what I can say is this:
1- The owner of Grizzly Imports is a fellow shooter and a frequent visitor to this site.
2- The owner of Grizzly Imports has on several occasions answered questions on this forum and looked into problems related to warranty issues, replacement parts, and such.
I ask you.....have you ever experienced this before, and do you ever expect to receive this type of service from an American manufacturer?
I think not.
While I have not encountered any problems with my Grizzly machines, their reputation for follow-up service is the main reason that I purchased my machines from them. They don't strike me as being a "fly by night" type of supplier that only cares about making the sale and then retreating and leaving the customer to deal with the wolves.
I think that Shiraz's willingness to address problems on a public forum no matter how embarrassing the stuation may be should be a template for the rest of businesses to follow.
I will continue to purchase machines from Grizzly as long as I believe that they are interested in providing affordable products to the masses and are willing to back the product up with service. I have not found the opposite to be true.
Thank You Shiraz, for providing an affordable machine and backing it up with continued customer support.
Sincerely,
Mark Van Beek, aka lngrng
1- The owner of Grizzly Imports is a fellow shooter and a frequent visitor to this site.
2- The owner of Grizzly Imports has on several occasions answered questions on this forum and looked into problems related to warranty issues, replacement parts, and such.
I ask you.....have you ever experienced this before, and do you ever expect to receive this type of service from an American manufacturer?
I think not.
While I have not encountered any problems with my Grizzly machines, their reputation for follow-up service is the main reason that I purchased my machines from them. They don't strike me as being a "fly by night" type of supplier that only cares about making the sale and then retreating and leaving the customer to deal with the wolves.
I think that Shiraz's willingness to address problems on a public forum no matter how embarrassing the stuation may be should be a template for the rest of businesses to follow.
I will continue to purchase machines from Grizzly as long as I believe that they are interested in providing affordable products to the masses and are willing to back the product up with service. I have not found the opposite to be true.
Thank You Shiraz, for providing an affordable machine and backing it up with continued customer support.
Sincerely,
Mark Van Beek, aka lngrng
I have the floor model version of this machine. They stopped selling it for metal work and called it a "Wood Mill" for a bit. It is no way a "real" milling machine. It's more like a highend drill press. But that said, if you take your time, and very small cuts, you can do nice work with it. I've flutted barrels, flutted bolts, installed Sako extractors, milled tops of slides, drilled scope mounting holes, etc.
But MANY times I wish I had a "Big Boy" mill. It's all about weight and rigidity. This small mill has neither.
As you can see, I've added DRO and that has been a great improvement.
But MANY times I wish I had a "Big Boy" mill. It's all about weight and rigidity. This small mill has neither.
As you can see, I've added DRO and that has been a great improvement.
P
papapaul
Guest
A: a mill/drill is way better than no mill, regardless of its quality. B: add a knee to a mill/drill and you have a huge improvement all other things being equal. C: The quality of the low end mills varies greatly, you can't use experience with a HF or off-brand machine to draw conclusions about Grizzley, Jet, or enco.
P
Paul Skvorc
Guest
Do not read this post as 'mean-mouthing' Grizzly, as I own equipment they sell and would buy more.
HOWEVER, fan's comments aside, I prefer the unvarnished first-hand truth when it comes to reporting on performance or service of some machinery.
A year ago (almost to the day), I took delivery of a G4003G lathe and G3617 mill. If I lived in the "Lower 48", I might have looked for "old American iron", but living in Alaska completely precludes inspecting any piece of used equipment. That makes all purchases of used equipment a "pig in a poke". "New" American Iron was cost-prohibitive for comparable capabilities of the Grizzly machines.
I "ran the lathe in" per the instruction provided. I do not take short cuts - you can take that or leave it. After running the lathe in, I started threading a new barrel. About half way through the exercise, "there began a terrible noise". By the time I got the machine cut off, the 'damage was done'. As it turned out, the gears that transfer energy from the main transmission to the screw/thread-cutting transmission are held on their shafts with screws and a washer. The upper gear's screw (not inside the transmission, but hidden from view by its protective cover) had worked out, the gear got 'cocked', and had bound up. The gear and the shaft were ruined. I was about 30 minutes of operation past 'run in'.
I called Grizzly's customer service and they were resonably responsive, and didn't question the veracity of my assertion that I had followed the proper 'run in' proceedures. They agreed to send the replacement parts. Here's where I start to get chapped. While they were replacing the parts free of charge, they REFUSED to send them any other way than USPS PARCEL POST! REFUSED! It took 6 WEEKS to get the replacement parts! The way I see it, I was doing Grizzly a favor by repairing a problem that was ENTIRELY in warrantee, and doing the repairs FOR FREE. The LEAST they could have done was send the parts via Priority Mail. That STUPID policy of sending warrantee parts via Parcel Post meant I was unable to use the lathe for 6 WEEKS... Just because Grizzly is too cheap to send WARRANTEE PARTS by a REASONABLE method.
Once I received the parts, I replaced them and was back to work. The lathe worked about 2 more hours before it failed again. To keep this story at least a little bit shorter, I'll cut to the chase. Again it was not a question of me having done something wrong as it turned out that one of the gears in the screw/thread-cutting transmission was so poorly made that it wouldn't mesh with it's mating gear. As soon as I tried to cut that thread pitch, it "ate" the gears and bent the main shaft. A picture to Grizzly Customer Service verified the problem. Again, they offered no resistance to replacing the parts. AGAIN THEY REFUSED TO SEND THEM OTHER THAN BY PARCEL POST! EVEN WHEN I OFFERDS TO PAY FOR SHIPPING MYSELF! You can bet that chapped my ass. You can also bet your life, that even though this lathe has been out of commission for more than 3 months of the first year of its life, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that my warrantee will be advanced an equal mount.
The mill has one major flaw - the cross-feed has MORE THAN HALFA REVOLUTION of backlash. Of course I could send it back to Grizzly for repair - two-way from Alaska for a 1500 lb item - yeah right.
On the positive side, both the lathe and the mill were amazingly "right on" with regard to specs. Very precise. It was a bit of a surprise as the "cosmetics" - wheel scales, castings, etc. - are VERY crude. BUT... the truth is, the perfrmance (other than the obscene backlash on the cross-feed of the mill) is "dead nuts". In the end, that's what really matters.
I'll still buy Grizzly tools, but I think "the whole first-hand truth" is important to relate. If "Shiraz Balolia" is indeed "watching", you need to correct the idiotic "shipping" issue. It's stupid and undoes everything "good" the Customer Service department does otherwise. Such a patently stupid policy reveals a great deal about what a seller thinks of his customers.
Paul
HOWEVER, fan's comments aside, I prefer the unvarnished first-hand truth when it comes to reporting on performance or service of some machinery.
A year ago (almost to the day), I took delivery of a G4003G lathe and G3617 mill. If I lived in the "Lower 48", I might have looked for "old American iron", but living in Alaska completely precludes inspecting any piece of used equipment. That makes all purchases of used equipment a "pig in a poke". "New" American Iron was cost-prohibitive for comparable capabilities of the Grizzly machines.
I "ran the lathe in" per the instruction provided. I do not take short cuts - you can take that or leave it. After running the lathe in, I started threading a new barrel. About half way through the exercise, "there began a terrible noise". By the time I got the machine cut off, the 'damage was done'. As it turned out, the gears that transfer energy from the main transmission to the screw/thread-cutting transmission are held on their shafts with screws and a washer. The upper gear's screw (not inside the transmission, but hidden from view by its protective cover) had worked out, the gear got 'cocked', and had bound up. The gear and the shaft were ruined. I was about 30 minutes of operation past 'run in'.
I called Grizzly's customer service and they were resonably responsive, and didn't question the veracity of my assertion that I had followed the proper 'run in' proceedures. They agreed to send the replacement parts. Here's where I start to get chapped. While they were replacing the parts free of charge, they REFUSED to send them any other way than USPS PARCEL POST! REFUSED! It took 6 WEEKS to get the replacement parts! The way I see it, I was doing Grizzly a favor by repairing a problem that was ENTIRELY in warrantee, and doing the repairs FOR FREE. The LEAST they could have done was send the parts via Priority Mail. That STUPID policy of sending warrantee parts via Parcel Post meant I was unable to use the lathe for 6 WEEKS... Just because Grizzly is too cheap to send WARRANTEE PARTS by a REASONABLE method.
Once I received the parts, I replaced them and was back to work. The lathe worked about 2 more hours before it failed again. To keep this story at least a little bit shorter, I'll cut to the chase. Again it was not a question of me having done something wrong as it turned out that one of the gears in the screw/thread-cutting transmission was so poorly made that it wouldn't mesh with it's mating gear. As soon as I tried to cut that thread pitch, it "ate" the gears and bent the main shaft. A picture to Grizzly Customer Service verified the problem. Again, they offered no resistance to replacing the parts. AGAIN THEY REFUSED TO SEND THEM OTHER THAN BY PARCEL POST! EVEN WHEN I OFFERDS TO PAY FOR SHIPPING MYSELF! You can bet that chapped my ass. You can also bet your life, that even though this lathe has been out of commission for more than 3 months of the first year of its life, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that my warrantee will be advanced an equal mount.
The mill has one major flaw - the cross-feed has MORE THAN HALFA REVOLUTION of backlash. Of course I could send it back to Grizzly for repair - two-way from Alaska for a 1500 lb item - yeah right.
On the positive side, both the lathe and the mill were amazingly "right on" with regard to specs. Very precise. It was a bit of a surprise as the "cosmetics" - wheel scales, castings, etc. - are VERY crude. BUT... the truth is, the perfrmance (other than the obscene backlash on the cross-feed of the mill) is "dead nuts". In the end, that's what really matters.
I'll still buy Grizzly tools, but I think "the whole first-hand truth" is important to relate. If "Shiraz Balolia" is indeed "watching", you need to correct the idiotic "shipping" issue. It's stupid and undoes everything "good" the Customer Service department does otherwise. Such a patently stupid policy reveals a great deal about what a seller thinks of his customers.
Paul
S
Shiraz Balolia
Guest
Paul - I have reviewed all the order notes relating to your purchase and there are always two sides of the story. While your side is partially accurate you have left out many details where we did send some parts to you via priority mail, at our cost, where some parts came back to us because there was "no mail receptacle at physical address" (that is the reason stated by the Post Office), etc.... All in all we sent you 3 parts orders by Priority mail and 3 orders by parcel post.
We apologize for the inconvenience caused.
We apologize for the inconvenience caused.
Okay, stepping around the warranty issues people may feel they have...
At what point does one of the heavier duty mill-drills become a better option vs. a light duty Bridgeport clone?
Specifically I'm looking at something like this:
http://grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484
vs. the 3103 mentioned in the original post:
http://grizzly.com/products/Vertical-Mill-w-Table-Power-Feed/G3103
Not being a machinist type, I guess I don't see the difference between the table moving up and down on a small knee-type mill, and the head moving up and down a dovetail on a square-column mill/drill - functionally. Said mill/drill weighs almost as much (944 vs. 980), and seems more capable in most dimensions (table size, table X-Y travel, quill travel).
Could someone perhaps enlighten me?
Thanks,
Monte
At what point does one of the heavier duty mill-drills become a better option vs. a light duty Bridgeport clone?
Specifically I'm looking at something like this:
http://grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484
vs. the 3103 mentioned in the original post:
http://grizzly.com/products/Vertical-Mill-w-Table-Power-Feed/G3103
Not being a machinist type, I guess I don't see the difference between the table moving up and down on a small knee-type mill, and the head moving up and down a dovetail on a square-column mill/drill - functionally. Said mill/drill weighs almost as much (944 vs. 980), and seems more capable in most dimensions (table size, table X-Y travel, quill travel).
Could someone perhaps enlighten me?
Thanks,
Monte
P
Paul Skvorc
Guest
Shiraz Balolia,
You are mistaken. If you really wanna play this out here on the internet, I'll be happy to drag out my records. This was a matter that effected my business, and I assure you I have all of the emails, phone records, and notices from UPS (which is how the items were actually sent in spite of me repeatedly telling your staff that there is no UPS "Ground" to where I live), regarding this matter. My records are first-hand information from a source that has no reason to deceive. Your representation is second-hand, at best, from sources that have "something" (an ass-chewing, at least) to lose.
Paul
You are mistaken. If you really wanna play this out here on the internet, I'll be happy to drag out my records. This was a matter that effected my business, and I assure you I have all of the emails, phone records, and notices from UPS (which is how the items were actually sent in spite of me repeatedly telling your staff that there is no UPS "Ground" to where I live), regarding this matter. My records are first-hand information from a source that has no reason to deceive. Your representation is second-hand, at best, from sources that have "something" (an ass-chewing, at least) to lose.
You'll appreciate I hope, that this is a bit hard to believe when you start off by calling me a liar.
Paul
J
Jay Idaho
Guest
With a knee type, it is often very handy to lock the quill against the stop, raise the table until you have cutter contact, unlock and raise the quill and then raise the table a specific amount before doing the plunge with the quill. I use this a lot for counterbores and depth-of-cut control.
With a B'port or clone, it is handy to be able to tilt the head in both axis. Also, being able to move the spindle off to the right or left with the turret and in and out using the ram makes it easier to do a lot of setups.
These features have been used a lot by me when I was finishing a laminated stock and when I've inletted a number of McMillan MBR and the big 5" wide Mac stock.