Getting Moly completely out????

A

Always10mphwind

Guest
In another thread I asked questions about cleaning while shooting Moly but now I need to know how to get it completely out because I want to go back to regular copper jackets. In both my 7mm Mag. and 223wssm I have put the moly bore paste in and shot moly bullets luckily only about 5-10 shots out of each one. I know I need to use carbon removers but I don't know what carbon removers are....One guy mentioned using Kroil as a cleaner and another mentioned Gem top engine cleaner or something. I am trying PB Blaster similar to Kroil. Please tell me what I can use I have engine degreaser, carb cleaner, starting fluid, acetone, MEK, Marvel Mystery oil, xylene, whitewall cleaner.....HELP

I have been told reg. copper jackets won't group after using moly is this true?
Was told moly would bake into the barrel creating a carbon crust that was really hard.

I was also told not to use metal brushes with moly, so can I use metal brushes to get it out?
 
Just clean with Butch's Bore Shine and move forward, don't get all wrapped up in the headgame.

al
 
GM TEC - General Motors Top Engine Cleaner

I've used Carb-Out for cleaning carbon with success.
 
carb cleaner might be....

good, particularly if you cap the barrel, then fill it to the chamber & let it soak for a couple days. This way you can allow it to penetrate & lift crud. I try to stay away from ammoniated or chlorinated cleaners. Calm down, make haste slowly.
 
if you only shot 5 rounds out of your bbl's you have not shot enought to evaluate the benefits of moly.

carbon bakes on the moly layer, once you have built up a moly layer.

the gm top engine cleaner is to remove carbon, not moly.

the only way to remove moly is to send the bbls to me and buy new ones...lol.

i do not think you have enough moly to worry about at this time.

mike in co
 
I don't have Butches bore shine, I have some JB bore bright.

I still need to know how to get it out, can I just clean it like I normally do with brushes and typical bore cleaning solvents. I have some remington bore cleaner that claims to remove lead,copper,carbon...you take a smaller brush and wrap a patch around it and scrub with that cleaner.

Should I use that or can I clean it out with brushes and not do to it whatever brushes are suppose to do to barrels with moly?
 
As an experiment on removing moly I tried a couple of the foaming bore cleaners. I put some moly coated bullets in a plastic bag and a shot of foaming bore cleaner in with them, the next morning all of the moly was off of the bullets. This leads me to believe that it would also remove any moly that was in your barrel.

drover
 
If I recall your earlier posting, the issue you have is that the rifles didn't shoot as you hoped with molied projectiles & you now need reassurance that by taking a particular cleaning step, you'll get rid of all the moly & your rifles will shoot fine.

The deal with moly is that it is of a particular crystelline structure such that while it will maybe get into the pores of the rifles' bores, it won't plate onto itself more than a micron or so thick. Powder fouling can build up on moly, but it doesn't itself. Therefore, with such a low mileage bore (which a guy like me who shoots the stuff was not even moly tempered with the number of shots you mention you've fired) just scrub it out with General Motors Top Engine Cleaner or any equivalent on a bristle (not bronze) brush, patch it dry, repeat until you can't see any black on the patches & get into shooting with naked projectiles again.

Any moly in the pores of the barrel won't come in contact with your projectiles, so you'll know that the results you get will be a true reflection of the aggregated potential of the rifles' accuracy & your loading skill.
 
John Kielly said:
If I recall your earlier posting, the issue you have is that the rifles didn't shoot as you hoped with molied projectiles & you now need reassurance that by taking a particular cleaning step, you'll get rid of all the moly & your rifles will shoot fine.

The deal with moly is that it is of a particular crystelline structure such that while it will maybe get into the pores of the rifles' bores, it won't plate onto itself more than a micron or so thick. Powder fouling can build up on moly, but it doesn't itself. Therefore, with such a low mileage bore (which a guy like me who shoots the stuff was not even moly tempered with the number of shots you mention you've fired) just scrub it out with General Motors Top Engine Cleaner or any equivalent on a bristle (not bronze) brush, patch it dry, repeat until you can't see any black on the patches & get into shooting with naked projectiles again. END QUOTE








No that isn't what I said, my rifle shoots excellent with or without. The earlier post was just a question on how to clean properly when shooting moly.


No the moly groups were fine, I didn't have any accuracy problems. I just don't want to shoot it anymore because the bullets I want to shoot don't come in moly. I want to shoot 60gr. Nosler Partitions in case something larger than a varmit walks out I will have a bullet with a little backbone to it. The 60gr. Nos or Win. 64gr power-point will be effective on a whitetail with proper
shot placement.

I also need to know what an equivalent to GM Top Engine Cleaner is?
Is it a degreaser? More like Starting Fluid or carb cleaner?

Is there an equivalent at Wal-Mart I can buy because I have never seen GM Top Engine Cleaner and don't have time during the day to go by the GMC parts shop to get any.


The reason I want the moly out of the 7mm is because I sold it to a friend and he is convinced that the Hornady 139gr. Moly SST isn't enough for large whitetail and wants to shoot the 154 SST's. He shot a 250lb hog with the 139 4 times before he killed it and thinks it's the bullet instead of where he hit. I have never had a deer or hog run from a 139 properly placed.
Click to expand...
 
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Always ...

Always10mphwind said:
I asked questions about cleaning while shooting Moly but now I need to know how to get it completely out because I want to go back to regular copper jackets.
Click to expand...

Don't complicate this process. Follow Terry's method.

Terry Brady, 2005 600-Yard IBS Shooter of the Year: My cleaning procedure is:

I put a patch of Kroil through the barrel, then wet another patch with Kroil, stroke it pretty good, then I dry patch it.

Next I run a couple Montana X-Treme 50 BMG wet patches and I let that set for 5-10 minutes, then dry-patch the 50 BMG out.

Then I put a little JB (cleaning paste, not bore bright ... you're trying to clean, not polish) on a dry patch on a jag, and short-stroke about 6-8 inches of the throat area for about a dozen strokes.

After that I push another Kroil-wetted patch through again, and then wet/dry patch to remove the JB residue.

The last step it to run a patch with Kroil.

Source: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

THAT'S IT !!!! If you can follow his simple procedure you'll get you barrel clean.

You can order the products mentioned above from: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ or http://midwayusa.com/. Art
 
abintx said:
Don't complicate this process. Follow Terry's method.

Terry Brady, 2005 600-Yard IBS Shooter of the Year: My cleaning procedure is:

I put a patch of Kroil through the barrel, then wet another patch with Kroil, stroke it pretty good, then I dry patch it.

Next I run a couple Montana X-Treme 50 BMG wet patches and I let that set for 5-10 minutes, then dry-patch the 50 BMG out.

Then I put a little JB (cleaning paste, not bore bright ... you're trying to clean, not polish) on a dry patch on a jag, and short-stroke about 6-8 inches of the throat area for about a dozen strokes.

After that I push another Kroil-wetted patch through again, and then wet/dry patch to remove the JB residue.

The last step it to run a patch with Kroil.

Source: http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

THAT'S IT !!!! If you can follow his simple procedure you'll get you barrel clean.

You can order the products mentioned above from: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ or http://midwayusa.com/. Art
Click to expand...


I know I am not trying to polish(all it said was JB not bore paste) and if anyone can follow my simple question and tell me some alternatives to KROIL! because I don't have any on hand
 
read my lips.....

you do not have enough moly in the bbl to worry about.

read my lips
gm top engine cleaner is a carbon cleaner not a moly cleaner.

you must go to a parts shop to get similar....but you dont need any!

if you only fired 5 shots...you do not have a moly treated bbl!

just clean it with brushes and patches till no more black...or till you get tired.
 
Always ...

Here is a another article on Moly-Coat Barrel Cleaning by David Tubb who is arguably the best, and winningest, competitive rifleman in history. He has won (to date) a record "eleven" NRA National High Power Rifle Championship titles at Camp Perry, Ohio. That's four more than next best. Perhaps you can find something in his guide that you have on hand. If not, I recommend you go buy the stuff the experts use: http://www.davidtubb.com/tcom_images/articles/mcc.pdf. Art
 
Getting the Moly out ?

How do you know that you haven't already got the moly out? Do you have a bore scope? I shoot factory moly when I have it, and I shoot bare bullets
when I don't have moly. I clean the same all the the time, and I have a bore scope that I use to check my barrels. I have never had any problems going back and forth, and I have never seen any problems or build up with my bore scope. I only use factory coated moly bullets, maybe that's why I never have had any problems ??? You might be wearing out your bore for nothing.
 
I think that it was Bob Dodd that once told me that Dawn dishwashing detergent is really good for removing moly. I believe that he said that he tried it after noting how well that it removed it from his hands.

If I was going to try this, I would probably finish by pouring boiling water through the barrel and then a little high percentage alcohol to rapidly evaporate any droplets that might be hanging around in the corners. After that you can warm things up with a hair drier to evaporate the alcohol and lightly oil the bore and then dry patch a few. I know this reads as eccentric and unconventional, but if you have cleaned the barrel conventionally, and still have gray patches coming out, you can ignore them (my recommendation since there has been no demonstrated accuracy problem associated with this), or you might want to try this.

I have a Hart barreled .222 that at one point in its life had a lot of moly coated bullets down the bore and was not shooting as well as it had been. After suffering with the problem for a while, I decided that my cleaning method during that time had been inadequate and had probably let to a buildup of powder fouling that had hurt accuracy, so I did a lot of careful brushing with my usual solvent (I actually changed to a second brush before it was over.) an when I noticed that I wasn't getting any more black on the rod behind the brush. I called it good. The accuracy got better. The last time that someone took that rifle to the range, it shot a group in the teens, so I conclude that I must not have hurt it.
 
Cleaning Moly

I have been shooting moly for years in several of my barrel.

Yes! I do have a Hawkeye bore stroke and I use it often.

You can use either JB Bore Paste or JB Bore Bright. I have seen very little difference.

Use a patch wrapped around the jag. The tighter the better.

Clean first with Kroil. Then clean with 25 full strokes using JB, in and out = one stroke.

Replace the patch and repeat with a new batch and JB for 25 strokes. If the barrel feels smooth it should be done. If you are worried about it do one more patch and another 25 strokes. Then clean with Kroil.

Then dry the barrel with two clean tight patches. If you check it with a bore scope it will be bright polished metal. No moly, no copper and no carbon.

If you bore scope the barrel with Kroil in the barrel you will be send your scope back for a $275 repair procedure. Be sure to dry it out first.

This works. I have been using it for years. The snakes oil techniques may work but I have not see the results via bore scope inspections. Until I got a bore scope my bore cleaning was hit or miss. Now I know what works because I can see the results.
 
Attaching two images I took from the use of a Hawkeye (25x) bore-scope.

I used WartHog 1134 to this cleaning (I also find Sweets 7.62 and Montana Extreme nearly as effective).

For me, properly Moly-coated bullets are not an issue to barrel cleaning. I do not take any extra steps for Moly and clean with the exact same chemicals and procedures as I do for my naked bullet barrels.

A lot of hub-hub out there about Moly, that I do not see or agree with. What I like about Moly is I can go longer with out having to clean. 50 to 200 rounds is not uncommon for me.

On a final note: I do not coat my own bullets. I buy them coated by the bullet makers.

1stShilen-BoreAssessment.jpg


Happy Shooting
Donovan Moran
 
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Bear with me.

1. Here is a test I did over 5 years ago. I coated 10 bullets with moly. I cleaned 5 of them immediately. The moly would come off with water, and completely off with soap & water. The other 5 I let sit a week. The moly would not come off. So all the tests that are applied soon after the moly is applied may be invalid for moly that has sat awhile.

2. As you might suspect, I shot moly in my long-range rifles for a while. I had build up (for whatever reason), and decided to stop shooting it. Cleaned as usual. It took about fifty rounds of naked bullets, and the barrel shot as well as ever with bare bullets -- maybe a little better. Using a borescope, the gray/black color you get in the bore with moly never did come completely out, even 700 rounds later when the barrel was at the end of its competitive life. Didn't matter.

This, of course, is anecdotal. I would try what Donovan has suggested (except you can't go back & clean), and if the bore is still gray, don't worry about it. After a good cleaning, whatever remains won't affect your grouping after 20-50 rounds.

FWIW
 
dmoran65 said:
Attaching two images I took holding a camera to the head of a Hawkeye (25x) bore-scope.

I used WartHog 1134 to this cleaning. But I also find Sweets 7.62 and Montana Extreme nearly as effective.

For me, properly Moly-coated bullets are not an issue to barrel cleaning. I do not take any extra steps for Moly and clean with the exact same chemicals and procedures as I do for my naked bullet barrels.

A lot of hub-hub out there about Moly, that I do not see or agree with. What I like about Moly is I can go longer with out having to clean. 50 to 200 rounds is not uncommon for me.

On a final note: I do not coat my own bullets. I buy them coated by the bullet makers.

1stShilen-BoreAssessment.jpg


Happy Shooting
Donovan Moran
Click to expand...

counter productive cleaning.
how many shots for the bbl to season/coat/sttle down wiht that cleaning ?
if you remove all the coating, yo uhave to build it back up to see its benefit.

mike in co
 
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