Front rest sandbag

A

av8tor

Guest
Rules state:

The Front Sandbag shall be a bag, without additions, containing sand only, and at least 1⁄2 inch thick over its entire surface. The bag must be able to be deflected horizontally at least 1⁄4 inch with finger pressure at any point. The portion, which contacts the rifle, shall contact the entire surface under the fore-end. Tape on sandbag is legal.

My question is this - what exactly does "without additions" mean? Must the bag be one solid bag, or is a front bag such as on a SEB NEO, a three piece bag legal. I'm aware of all the questions regarding it being 1/2" or not, so not looking to get into that discussion. I asking for regards of using in 100/200 bench rest.

Thanks

Jim
 
I frankly don't have an answer...

But I will say that the rule needs to be re-written (or removed entirely)....to at least match what folks are using for bags these days. For example, the 1/2 inch thing...heck...some folks bag ain't even 1/2 inch total. It's not like anyone cares as long as you're 10th place....get up to 1st place and somebody might point at it and talk about you like you were a dog. That's about it!

It ain't like a bag makes that much difference anyway.....just sayin'. There are folks that believe in the bag - really there are. Wait a while and see. JD Denoff and Clarence Hammond looked for just the right bag for the whole Super Shoot one year. There may be something to it but others will need to carry that torch.

Came back to add this...If you've got your eye on something already in use I'm saying that will be just fine. Conversely, if you're about to try something new and different then the correct thing to do is have the right folks approve it in advance. If it were me, and I didn't think I could shoot as good with something "already approved", then I'd just use it until I was either approved or DQ'd. The line of thinking there is that I couldn't win anyway using something else so why not just go for it and let the referees trouble with it.
 
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Wilbur is

Wilbur said:
But I will say that the rule needs to be re-written (or removed entirely)....to at least match what folks are using for bags these days. For example, the 1/2 inch thing...heck...some folks bag ain't even 1/2 inch total. It's not like anyone cares as long as you're 10th place....get up to 1st place and somebody might point at it and talk about you like you were a dog. That's about it!

It ain't like a bag makes that much difference anyway.....just sayin'. There are folks that believe in the bag - really there are. Wait a while and see. JD Denoff and Clarence Hammond looked for just the right bag for the whole Super Shoot one year. There may be something to it but others will need to carry that torch.

Came back to add this...If you've got your eye on something already in use I'm saying that will be just fine. Conversely, if you're about to try something new and different then the correct thing to do is have the right folks approve it in advance. If it were me, and I didn't think I could shoot as good with something "already approved", then I'd just use it until I was either approved or DQ'd. The line of thinking there is that I couldn't win anyway using something else so why not just go for it and let the referees trouble with it.
Click to expand...

Spot on!!!! If you are looking at an existing bag, Run With IT!!!!! If it is a new design, get it approved first.

David
 
Thanks for input gentlemen. I've went ahead and picked up a one piece bag for the NEO from Mike just to make sure.

Jim
 
"The Front Sandbag shall be a bag, without additions, containing sand only"

"without additions" IMO means just that. In other words you can not add cement, lead shot or other additives to the sand. The reason for the rule is because some people do use additives to their sand.
 
Remember my thread

John S said:
"The Front Sandbag shall be a bag, without additions, containing sand only"

"without additions" IMO means just that. In other words you can not add cement, lead shot or other additives to the sand. The reason for the rule is because some people do use additives to their sand.
Click to expand...

Go back to last year sometime and you may recall a thread I posted queering whether rutile sand containing metalliferous compounds like zircon, manganese etc was really legal to use in sand bags and if it wasn't then some records shot using it could be in jeopardy. It created some interesting comments to say the least but the end result could be interpreted as. I was just being pedantic lead shot was a no no but everything else was ok. Now this thread comes up. Umm
Andy.
 
Some time back (early 2000s), it was possible to buy a cordura front bag that had a seam reinforced with a thin plastic strip, that ran the width of the bag across the top - effectively this was the only part of the bag that contacted fore-end with this bag type. I am told this arrangement shot very well, though never tried one personally. Aside from arguably being filled with something other than "sand only", I know of at least one case where the bag was protested, and the plastic insert was held to be an "addition".
 
Personally, I see this as a rule that stifles innovation and potentially holds back what are claimed to be the most accurate rifles on the planet, without much justification, yet a fair amount of confusion about it. No one piece rests and run what ya brung, would seem to make sense. Just my 2 cents. Maybe someone can clarify the real need for such a rule.
 
Mike In 1000 yard benchrest this rule was made to keep everyone on the same playing field! I know what you're saying about Innovation but what's next ( ROLLERS} If you don't use a front rest or container you can use as big a sandbag as you like. So just keep doing whatever to the rifle and leave the sandbag rule alone! Just my two cents.

Joe Salt
 
Wilbur said:
But I will say that the rule needs to be re-written (or removed entirely)....to at least match what folks are using for bags these days. For example, the 1/2 inch thing...heck...some folks bag ain't even 1/2 inch total. It's not like anyone cares as long as you're 10th place....get up to 1st place and somebody might point at it and talk about you like you were a dog. That's about it!

It ain't like a bag makes that much difference anyway.....just sayin'. There are folks that believe in the bag - really there are. Wait a while and see. JD Denoff and Clarence Hammond looked for just the right bag for the whole Super Shoot one year. There may be something to it but others will need to carry that torch.

Came back to add this...If you've got your eye on something already in use I'm saying that will be just fine. Conversely, if you're about to try something new and different then the correct thing to do is have the right folks approve it in advance. If it were me, and I didn't think I could shoot as good with something "already approved", then I'd just use it until I was either approved or DQ'd. The line of thinking there is that I couldn't win anyway using something else so why not just go for it and let the referees trouble with it.
Click to expand...


I don't understand why..."shall contact the entire surface under the fore-end"...if the bag were slightly "U" shaped to allow the edge of the stock to ride, it would reduce any rocking effect of the forearm....
 
Joe Salt said:
Mike In 1000 yard benchrest this rule was made to keep everyone on the same playing field! I know what you're saying about Innovation but what's next ( ROLLERS} If you don't use a front rest or container you can use as big a sandbag as you like. So just keep doing whatever to the rifle and leave the sandbag rule alone! Just my two cents.

Joe Salt
Click to expand...

If a level playing field is the goal, maybe we should all shoot off of a Caldwell, or a Seb. I'm not proposing anything. Tell me the rules and hang the targets. I just don't see the point when there is already a rather large difference in rests. I like room for innovation, but rollers might not be the best. Some one piece rimfire rests use them, with mixed reviews.
 
Mike, So Make or buy the best front rest you can, but it has to be on one sand bag! OH and you have to be able to flex it with your fingers. Let me ask this, Do you think something other than sand would work better? Maybe stuffed with cotton! This should get some replies.

Joe salt
 
Jim I know just like or rules, I was just thinking out of the box or bag as you would. Theres no reason someone couldn't try something, it just can't be done in a match!

Joe Salt
 
a loose granular substance, typically pale yellowish brown, resulting from the erosion of siliceous and other rocks and forming a major constituent of beaches, riverbeds, the seabed, and deserts.

Ahhhhhh!

I'm off to shoot a couple rounds of Skeet:)=
 
Joe, It is hard to try something other than what they specify, when they say sand….. long range is a little different……. jim
 
Front rest sand bag

That 1/2 inch deflection on the bags went out the window at the IBS meeting quite a while ago.
Now with the new style rest and that rule out it almost a rail the way the rifles are set up.
The rule also said you must be able to lift the rifle from the rest without with out moveing it.
That hasn't been enforced for along time. I've seen shooters slide the rifle into the front rests , being almost locked in at a point.
Yet there are few challenges. just the way it is.
from what I have read in the NBRSA rule book its still in effect Bags must have the 1/2 inch deflection etc.
At present IBS has no new rule book in print , due to the constant rule changes every year. there are recent downloads though.
 
Gerry, Yes the rule about being able to lift the rifle out of the bag is enforced, if you think someones rifle will not come out of the rest without lifting the rest. Challenge that person, but ask them to lift the rifle, Do not touch someones rifle without their permission. Most rests weigh so much that the rifle will probably come out anyway!

Joe Salt
 
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