Front Bag: Heavy Sand or Play Sand

S

SGJennings

New member
Read in another thread about using play sand instead of heavy sand in the front bag.

Your opinions are hereby solicited.

Greg J.
 
Sand

Tried the play sand years ago, and found it broke down into powder after awhile with soft spots. Switched to the heavy sand from Sinclair and never looked back: should have used it the first time around.
 
I have a Farley front rest with an Edgewood bag. More info below, in case anyone finds it relevant.

I've packed the Sinclair black sand into it the ears to get them to firm up and I'm now concerned that the area between is too hard.

I've read folks not liking the Sinclair sand due to it packing and getting hard. Some of these folks have suggested play sand. Some have suggested the pale Zircon sand (which I have a bit of, btw) doesn't "pack down" like the Sinclair black sand.

I wondering...

1. How hard is too hard? Is there a rule of thumb? Like what should happen when I press into it with the pad of my thumb? Should I be able to push down into it or should I be able to just barely get anything?

2. Would the play sand or Zircon be better or worse for having *just a tad* of dampening in the front.

3. Do you guys monitor it and "fluff" it or anything similar to keep it from getting hard?

----

Of course, this is all about good tracking and preventing sneaky vertical.

My stock is a wood and carbon fiber that Cecil Tucker made for himself. It should have pretty good vibration control. It has vertical sides on the front of about 3/4". Just not as sharp as an Edge. The bottom of the butt has a 1/2" or so flat. It's pretty sharp on the edges. I'm setting this up by increasing the side tension till I feel some drag and then backing off just a tad and testing by pushing it to the side gently with my thumb and repeat till there is no drag, but no side-to-side.

My rear bag is a full Gator with 2 stitches between the tall ears. The base is packed with the Sinclair sand. As it settles, I'll put more in to prevent the "bubble" under the ears. The ears are about medium full.

Right now, I'm wanting to try a firm-but-not-hard front bag, a full, stable base and soft-but-not-mushy ears with the flat a bit up off the area between the ears.

I've had it out once in its new configuration ( 13.5# VFS). It seems to go back to the mothball when I gently push it back with my shoulder. So far, I have *not* seen it jump out of the rear ears when I shoot.
 
Why mess with it?

"I've had it out once in its new configuration ( 13.5# VFS). It seems to go back to the mothball when I gently push it back with my shoulder. So far, I have *not* seen it jump out of the rear ears when I shoot."


It doesn't seem to have a problem. Leave it as it is!......... Jan
 
Because I don't want to have it spring up, especially at a match, and not have a foundation to work from.

For example... I got to my very first group match. At that range, you shoot pretty down hill. I couldn't get the front rest low enough. Someone finally took pity on me and loaned me a spacer for the rear bag.

THEN, the gun started jumping round and the target looked like I'd shot it with a load of #00 buck. The guy next me to leaned over and said "Since you put in that spacer, your barrel is on your forend stop. *Everyone* knows to watch for that....".
 
front bag sand

Greg,

You might want to look at the classifieds here. You will find under "equipment" " bags and rests" Adds by Dave Dohrman. Ultra Fabric bags and super feet. He uses a mixture of sands that he calls "ultra Lock" call him up at 864 884- 0155. his products are first rate and he is helpful....good bag filler sand too.
 
C'mon guys, the weekend is over. Are we really agonizing over a little bit of sand in a front rest???:rolleyes: I use the stuff out of my front yard, for cryin-out-loud.:cool:

Ray
 
I have thought about the sand issue for some time,Have changed bags and
sand quite often. I even shot off a wood block with ears that had a thin
single layer of light felt. I have never seen a lot of difference in verticle.
Now, if you jumped off the roof and landed on a pillow filled with any
sand, It would be hard. The other side of this is to soft, and you have
little side support and poor tracking. Thinking about it another way, if you start with a soft bag and fluff it up, doesn't it pack as you shoot. The best
shooting I did was with a bag about 3/8 thick and quite hard. I have had
verticle as well as wide shots yes, but proving this sand thing seems out
of reach. I really think it has another scource.
 
Greg

I think I do better with a soft front bag. I even kneed the front bag to soften it as part my setup. It seems to result in more forgiving gun behavior in the bags, especially verticle issues. Play sand doesn't pack as hard as the black heavy sand which I do use in the back bag when I twiddle knobs. When I shoot F-Class I bag squeeze to steer the gun (its hard to reach the knobs from prone) and I use a soft rear bag with play sand for that game.

Greg
 
I sure wouldn't put hard sand in the front, especially for score and especially on a toggle rest. You will get all kinds of strange happenings as the stock forend changes pitch on a hard flat surface.
 
Bob,

Any building supply store. Big box stores sell it in 50# bags for a few bucks . Keep a jug in the car with you and the next time you pass a concrete plant they'll probably give you several lifetimes worth and send you off with a wave.

Greg
 
I find it difficult to use hard sand effectively. I'm left with the impression that I'm using something akin to a steel bar covered with a thin layer of felt. My front and rear bags are playground sand, packed as full as I can get them. I've more recently played around with bags filled with raw rice and. except for the fact that I have to put more of my shoulder into the shot than I would llike, the rice looks to be fairly promising.
 
OldPPC said:
. . . I've more recently played around with bags filled with raw rice and. except for the fact that I have to put more of my shoulder into the shot than I would llike, the rice looks to be fairly promising.
Click to expand...
NBRSA anyway, seems to have changed the rules. You have to use sand now. Apparently no more rice or bird seed allowed. No idea why the change.
 
Charles

I thought the NBRSA rules have always specified sand only. I know they did as far back as 20 years ago. Have they been changed since then and then changed back again?

It's also interesting that the rules say that a bag has to be at least 1/2 inch thick and able to be deflected at least 1/4 inch with finger pressure only, a rule that is seldom, if ever, enforced. Evidently NBRSA thinks that a hard bag gives a shooter an advantage.

Also interesting that most guys on this thread seem to favor a soft bag whereas most shooters I know want theirs as hard as a rock. Fill it with sand, pound it in, soak it in water, starch it - whatever you had to do to get it hard. That's what led to the ribbed front bags and the double and triple thick rear bags, wasn't it.

But, most interesting of all is the attention being paid to front bags. When did that become such an important piece of equipment in point blank Benchrest?

Times change, I suppose.

Ray
 
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Can't speak for others, but I'm not paying more attention to the front bag, I'm trying to pay attention to *everything*. Can't run out to shoot on my break at work, but can try to get sage advice on things that are running through my head.

I'm a lot more concerned about how to read the wind effectively.
 
Ray, as I remember, it was "non-metalic substance" or something like that. Speedy Gonzales wrote about using a mixture of sand and parrot food (or maybe it was something you used for the other end of the parrot) -- a trick he learned from the .009 guy.
 
per the 2008 Rules

Quoted from the 2008 Official Rule Book, in part,

"The Rear Sandbag shall be a bag or combination of bags, containing sand only."

This is on page 16. Jan
 
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