Forming new brass! without a projectile

J

JRB

Guest
Just wondering about forming my new brass without any projectiles?
I have heard about fast pistol powder and cream of wheat?
Case is a 222 short into a 17 machIV improved and i have a slave barrel that is well worn, so no worries about damage.
Regards
Jim
 
It is just a bad idea to have pistol powder anywhere near rifle reloading. If you make a mistake and put a charge of bullseye behind a bullet, bad things will happen. I use to do my 6ppc this way but once I almost did this but caught myself before it went bang!
Bill
 
Fireforming

Hi!...To fireform 222 to17machIV, use the following load;7 grs Bullseye, fill with cream of wheat and top off with a plug of paraffin canning wax. Fire in barrel. This loading should fire form about 90%. Trim and use regular(not max) improved loading to full form the case in rifle at range or hunting. Note:you can never fire form 100% the first time around. Wipe cases free of any excessive lube prior to firing.

All the best, Ted.

N.B. Thread No.1 asked very intelligent questions. There are some cautious commentaries that had little to do with answering that question. Let us remember that when you're up to your ass in alligators ...the original intent was to drain the swamp! Also note that if MAX loads are used the primer pockets can open up defeating the purpose of achieving nice useable cases that last for many reloadings.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Unless you are in some kind of competition, you will be just as well off loading it up with bullets and shooting, making the first firing the fire form load. In most cases when I am forming something that will have a larger case capacity than the parent case, I go to the published max load and just do it. EX: 223 -223AI. I have never had a problem and always get well formed cases. You might try a few before you go for broke.

Rick
 
If you follow carefull reloading practices, there is no problem using pistol powder for rifle work. Most non-benchrest reloaders are loading for multiple calibers, rifle, pistol, and shotgun. Here at work we load for that, plus .50BMG, 25mm, 30mm, and 40mm all in one load room. Powder is stored in a seperate room. All the cans are well marked.
 
I use pistol or shotgun powder ALONE..... no filler. Reason is I've found that filler can deposit up inside the shoulder crease on shoulders angles 35* or more.

I do most of my fireforming and case reformation this way as I believe it's slightly less wearing on a shootable barrel (In case you don't have a fireform bbl for a round) but mainly because I can point it into the air and pull the trigger...... at midnite if I want.

IME firefoming loads aren't accurate enough for practice but if I've some squirrel or doghunting to do it's plenty accurate enough for shooting stuff..... "2 dogs w/1 stone" as it were

al
 
Thanks for your reply's
I will certainly be careful and load one case at a time until i am happy to proceed.
I would like to form with out projectiles, at this stage, as i have a slave barrel and a tight neck chamber, along with other considerations.
Can someone enlighten me, as to what is cream of wheat? Oat flakes for cooking with?

Alinwa, what charge of powder do you use,
I have read in other discussions that if there is no filler than more powder is required?
I guess the filler increases the pressure?

Many thanks to all who have shared their experience,
Jim
 
You cannot just fireform 222 to 17 Mach IV!

What's being missed here is that the 17 Mach IV is based on the 221 fireball case & is much shorter than a 222.

So you cannot just fireform a 222 to the 17. You need form dies to push back the shoulder, chop off the excess neck, and most likely neck turn the too thick necks. Starting with 221 fireball brass, you need to neck down in two steps to 20 & then 17. I loose too many cases necking down in 1 step.

My suggestion is to buy commercial Remington 17 fireball brass which is the commercial version of the Mach IV & avoid the work.

For my Mach IV I simply load the commercial cases & never look back.

Regards,
Ron
 
JRB said:
Thanks for your reply's
I will certainly be careful and load one case at a time until i am happy to proceed.
I would like to form with out projectiles, at this stage, as i have a slave barrel and a tight neck chamber, along with other considerations.
Can someone enlighten me, as to what is cream of wheat? Oat flakes for cooking with?

Alinwa, what charge of powder do you use,
I have read in other discussions that if there is no filler than more powder is required?
I guess the filler increases the pressure?

Many thanks to all who have shared their experience,
Jim
Click to expand...

Jim. Cream of Wheat looks similar to uncooked grits. I used Cream of wheat once but I think I'll eat the rest. I've been using Bullseye up into the neck. I seal the case mouth using dental wax sheets. My dentist is a shooter and gave me a box of 50 sheets that should last the rest of my life. Don't know if I'll continue using Bullseye because I haven't been able to find any for quite some time now. Opened my last 4 lb jug and I can load a lot of .38 spcl at 2.7 grains w/148 WC bullets.
 
JRB said:
Alinwa, what charge of powder do you use,
I have read in other discussions that if there is no filler than more powder is required?
I guess the filler increases the pressure?
Click to expand...

I start with half a case and work up.

Yes, it uses 3 times the powder VS using a filler.

Yes, filler increases the pressure.

30 HBR ff cu.jpg

Hopefully, if this picture loads it'll show successive charges of Clays shottygun pouder used in bowing out a modified .308 case

al
 
Ok

often K is used as shorthand for 1000. So 60K would be read as 60,000. :eek: Which is a possible pressure value.
 
adamsgt said:
often K is used as shorthand for 1000. So 60K would be read as 60,000. :eek: Which is a possible pressure value.
Click to expand...

Ohhh, I agree! "K" is confusing.....

'K's'
'KiPs'
kPa
"kips"
KiloPascals
kgf/cm2

My bad, not yours!

:)

As I said, my personal shorthand, never meant for public view....

al
 
I make my own. Looks like a 6" dia wilson inline seater. Need lots of mass to make em work easy. Put the case in, fill it with a syringe, put in the stem and whack it with a hammer. Gotta ream the stem hole real close just like a wilson seater or itll leak and make a bigger mess than usual. Make the stem go all the way into the case at rest with a close fit and thatll keep it inline better.
 
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