Fluting a finished, chambered barrel??

C

cginaz

Guest
I have a 1K LG with a great shooting 30" HV barrel that needs to lose about a lb. I was thinking that perhaps I could have the barrel fluted to accomplish this but wonder if having this done to a finished barrel would cause any problems with accuracy.

Any guidance? Thanks.....Chuck in Tucson
 
I read some time ago when Bill Shehane was shooting 1000 yard and at the top of the game that had a barrel that he called a hummer and it had 6 flutes, I don't remember why but he had 6 more flutes added to it and went on to win big with it after that.

I don't remember where I read it, probably a precision shooting interview. I have fluted several barrels myself and never thought it hurt them, but I never shot one and then fluted it.

Gary
 
CG, I have fluted many barrels, mostly uninstalled but have done a few that were installed on finished rifles. I saw no bad results as far as accuracy was concerned. You will need to pay attention to the rotational indexing of the barrel to be sure and get it back so one of the flutes is dead on up or it will look funny. Also 30 inches could be a problem on most Bridgeport type mills.

Good Luck,

Don
 
Unlikely to hurt anything. Some will tell you that fluting may add stress. So one day I called Dan Lilja (he's an engineer as well as a barrel maker). His take was fluting "helps remove" any residual stress, in that it will distribute it evenly.

On the other hand, fluting it will most likely change the tune. Great shooting barrels are hard to come by. Do you "want" to remove weight, or "have" to? Scope an option? The old Leupold's were pretty light at 14 ounces.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Charles E.....This particular rifle shoots very well but is a bit top heavy and tends to be tippy in my rest system. It just doesn't feel quite right. I'm considering the idea of putting a set of light weight aluminum rails on it to add a little more width in the front and rear and provide more stability so I can run my strings quickly without having to concentrate so much on not upsetting the gun.

At the moment the rifle is 13oz under 17lbs after removing some balancing weight I had in the butt.. I'm not sure what the rails will weigh as I'm still playing with the design. But, I'm looking for ways to take off up to another pound if necessary. Don't want to change the scope so the possibilty of fluting the barrel occurred to me. This is still in the planning stage.

Chuck
 
Were it me -- and I have been there, with a muzzle heavy rifle -- I'd put the 13 ounces back in the butt -- or a bit more if you can use a lighter scope -- and shoot it. 3/4 of a pound right at the end of the butt can do a lot to rebalance a rifle.

Adding width in the front will make the rifle more muzzle heavy -- whatever weight is involved in adding those rails, and width, is all weight in the wrong spot. The extra width can help with torque effect, but that only begins to appear with .30s and heavy bullets.

I remember Charles Bailey's light gun. Somehow 'ol CB won IBS Shooter of the Year with his heavy gun only -- his LG never would shoot. .300 Ackley, as I remember. Then he took the extra width and rails OFF his LG, and it started to shoot. Fortunately, he then moved, or none of us would have won anything. (Unfortunately, he's a good guy and we miss him.)

* * *

As I'm sure you know, moving the front rest out on the forearm also helps to rebalance the "shooting" of a muzzle-heavy rifle, but you do have to allow for recoil. Having the rifle slide off the front rest does nothing good.

As I remember, 410-R stainless weighs about .252 pounds per cubic inch. I'd check that number -- my memory isn't what it was when I was a mere child of 50. Getting a pound out by fluting then, requires removing about 4 cubic inches.

There have been some claims that removing any metal from a barrel, either by fluting or re-profiling it -- will cause the diameter to open up a few .0001s. But others say if the barrel has been properly stress-relieved, that won't happen. My take on this is "I don't know," so to be a bit safer, I'd not flute the last four inches of the barrel. That way, even if the barrel grew, there would be a bit of choke at the muzzle. As long as it doesn't have any choke now, that would be more apt to help than hurt.

Remember too that current thinking on "tuning" a barrel has to do with harmonics and vibration, esp. the third order harmonic. Changing the mass or profile of the barrel will likely change the "tuning" point. Whether or not you'd occasionally run into a barrel where reprofiling (or fluting) would move the "tune point" to too high pressure, or too low velocity, I don't know. But usually the best solution to that one is to add weight to the muzzle -- about 4 ounces will usually do the trick. And that's just what you can't do.

So, if this is a hummer barrel -- where "hummer" means one that for some reason shoots through wind changes better than it should, I'd leave it alone. In fact, I'd take it off & save it for National-level competitions. I'd lighten the stock, whatever it took, to rebalance. Those barrels don't come along very often.

If it's just a very good barrel, well, those are more common.

FWIW
 
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Charles E....I really appreciate your comments. And, as I think about it, you're probably right. I would be better off keeping all my extra 13oz in the rear. Got to give it some more thought but the idea of a rail in the rear maybe 2" wide by 6 or 8" long appeals to me. This would fit perfectly in the HG bag on my rear, mechanical rest, would put the weight as low as possible and would be more stable than the 5/8" or so width at the bottom of the laminate butt stock. Might be worth a try anyway.

I do hesitate to do anything to the barrel. I've only shot one 1K match with it and it gave me a 3.43" screamer group and a 4.69" three target agg here in October. Gotta put a couple more matches on it before I'll call it a hummer. I didn't get a chance use this 6BRX rifle at the Nationals due to the weather which favored larger calibers on the relays I shot. I'm going to shoot it at our Sahuaro 1K next week. Thanks for the help...

Chuck
 
Chuck
Go to TAP Plastics and have them make you a rail out of HDPE 6 inches wide by a foot long and 1/2 inch thick.You can then add two rails 1 inch wide by 1/2 thick by 12 inches.Epoxy the 3 pieces together using there instructions and attach it to your forend with double sided carpet tape.
The tape allows you to make adjustments and the HDPE is light compared to stainless so you can put the weight back in the buttstock.
Once you get it figured all out two stainless steel wood type scews will hold it together without any issues.
Now for the best part.It will probaly cost you $10 plus the epoxy or you can e-mail me your mailing address and I'll send you one,
Lynn aka Waterboy
 
Lynn...

Thanks for reminding me about using HDPE plate for this purpose. I had completely forgotten this approach and I think it may well do exactly what I need. I just ordered some plate from TAP online and will do some experimenting when it arrives. Using the double sided tape to get everthing aligned before it's screwed down is a great idea. Should allow even me to the the rails on straight. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks...

Chuck
 
Charles
I used the HDPE on my heavygun at the last match you atteneded in sacramento.The whole set-up ran $18 complete with hardware.I probaly spent $80 figuring it all out so no matter how you look at it stainless will cost you $200 or more over the HDPE.
You will probaly discover the double sided carpet tape at 2 inches wide will hold better than you ever expected.I doubled mine up on my lightgun because the fiberglass wasn't as flat as the HDPE.I can lift my lightgun by the tracking rail without having it fall off using only the tape.I left the tape in place and simply added the screws.
TAP sells an epoxy for sticking HDPE to HDPE and there is a trick to doing it correctly.Take the propane torch out of your annealer and heat the surfaces to be glued.You don't need to go crazy here just hold the pieces up to the light and you can see that the surface has changed slightly.You then mix up the two part epoxy and spread it evenly over one piece and add it to the second piece.Once dry in about 2 hours the bond is permanent.
I took my finished product down to TAP and showed them how it was to go on my stock without an action trigger or barrel and let them make me one using there equipment.They put some 45 degree angles on the outer edges and using a router they removed 1/2 inch of depth from the center section.This allowed for 1 inch thick rails on the outside edge and a 1/2 inch gap to the bag.They use a large flat tablesaw table for both cutting and routing operations and the fit and finish is first rate.It took the kid about 15 minutes to make mine.

While I was there I ended up buying a large sheet 1 inch thick the size of a piece of plywood for future projects.I built a 18 inch wide rail and rest system so far and plan oin making a custom stock next.
Lynn aka Waterboy
 
Lynn....Unfortunately we don't have any TAP stores in AZ but I ordered some plates cut to size online and will play with them myself. Should be interesting and a lot less expensive than sending my stocks back East to the gunsmith that usually does this kind of work for me. I'll try the approach of epoxying rails onto the flat plate first and will let you know how it works out.

Chuck
 
Anytime you put a tool to a piece of material you are removing stress from it. You don't "add" stress by machining. You remove it. Years ago I worked with plastics quite a bit. Delrin can be a real challenge as it loves to move around after it's machined. Bore a hole and slot it once and you'll see what I mean. It clams shut. If it were stress relieved it wouldn't do this.

Barrels are stress relieved pretty thoroughly when they arrive at your door. I have to think that so long as your setup and process is sound you won't hurt a thing. The challenge is going to be producing a chatter free finish on such a long wippy part. Work holding is everything. If it were me I'd support it between centers and use a series of vises with gimbled jaws to clamp along the barrel at various points. Index to a position, make your cut, loosen the vise, rotate 180* (or as close to as possible if your using an odd # of flutes) and repeat.
 
FWIW

I had a 220Beggs that I changed the scope setup on and that made it too heavy. I had the 2 barrels for that action fluted(to bring the gun back under 10.5 lbs.) and one of the barrels that I put back on seemed to shoot better than it did before I had it fluted. I haven't used the 2nd fluted barrel as the 1st one is still shooting good. I don't think that I would be afraid to flute barrels in the future.

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
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