fl sized brass chambers TIGHT

B

brokencilence

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in my rem xr100 22-250 once fired brass full length sized chambers way too tight, using rcbs fl dies. adjusted die as many ways as i could think of, from contacting shell holder to 1/4" away from shell holder. you can see where the die stops at the base of the brass and you can feel the ring there. on other calibers i have reloaded for you can see but not feel this ring. its almost like the die needs to go down farther on the brass to eliminate this but its already contacting the shell holder. any ideas? tight chamber, loose chamber, or maybe the dies? thanks for any input
 
Twice I've had to grind material off the shell holder to get the shoulder bumped back.
 
how much would you recommend taking off the shellholder? thanks
 
Before you start grinding, when you say touching the shell holder, is that with a case that is being sized in place, or with the die empty? The reason that I ask is that the difference can be as much as .006, which might just solve your problem. Try this, set the die to touch the shell holder (no case) and then size a case, but leave the ram at the top of its stroke. I there a gap between die and shell holder? It there is, you can readjust the die by part or all of that gap. (linkage stretch/ press spring)

Another thing to consider is shoulder location. If you adjust the die without reference to how much you are pushing the shoulder back, you may create excess headspace that will eventually lead to a case separation. The Stoney Point Headspace gage, a dial (or digital) caliper attachment, is the tool for this.

Those that advise adjusting FL dies by feel assume that the mouth of the die is smaller than the back of the chamber. It may not be.
 
Silence-- It Isn't Broke

But it may be expensive to fix it. By that I mean if you keep buying f/l dies trying to fix the problem that may not
exist with sizeing it can get expensive. I shoot a XR100 in
22-250, as well as 4 other various and asundry 22-250's.
I have 5 different sets of dies from 22 varmt. from RCBS to
bushing dies by Redding. Not counting Wilson. Each is a little different.
1st, try a fired case,no bullet, did it chamber OK?
if not, check your numbers on powder, bullet weight.
2nd, neck size brass, seat a bullet. Measure loaded round
neck diameter. If it exceeds .255" STOP!!! Check the bullet diam. and case neck thickness . simple math there.
The neck diam. on my XR100 is .256".
3rd, check o/a case length, mine is 1.925" absolute MAX.
Yours may be shorter,- you need tools and gauges to check this.
4th, check bullet ogive length to case head. Seating depth to long? Reloading manuals c.o.a.l. spec's will get you close here.
5th,and probably the anguish, may be a die to small in diam., causing your case to grow in shoulder length. IT can be excessively over sizeing the shoulder diam., the base, or both.
You didn't state if you had a "sticky / clicky" bolt lift problem so all the above is a "sorta wild a$$ guess"
Jeeese, you probably got the problem solved before I got this typed.

Love Mine !! Steve Moore
 
Listen to Boyd.

You need to measure a fired case, deprimed only, with a headspace gauge. Then measure the case FL resized, set up so the die is hitting the base of the shellholder with a case in the press.

If the shoulder hasn't been pushed back, you can start taking down the shellholder, .001 at a time, until the shoulder moves back. No one could tell you "how much" without this testing.

Likely you will find the shoulder HAS moved back, and the die/shellholder isn't the problem, but you have to rule it out first. The reason is simple, if yoo do grind some off the shellholder & still have tight chambering, you will also now have excessive headspace.

There are any number of things that can cause this condition. It is unusual to see them with a factory chamber and factory dies however; if both are to SAAMI specifications,the usual result is oversizing of a case, not undersizing.

Also pay attention to what was said about just *when* the die bumped the shellholder. You can screw it down far enough that there is a small bit of resistance with a case being sized as the lever on the ram goes "over the top." Then you know the shellholder is contacting the die when the case is being sized.

Even the lube you use can cause a difference. I ran a test with Imperial Sizing Die wax and RCBS case lube. With exactly the same relationship of die & shellholder, the shoulder was pushed back almost .001 more with the RCBS case lube-- it was slicker; there was that much less load on the press & die.

But if it isn't what we usually refer to as "headspace," (case length to shoulder) it may take a well-qualified gunsmith to figure out which of the several possibilities is causing the problem.

Alternatively, you could get a custom die, or have the rifle rebarreled with a chamber cut to fit your existing die.
 
1st once fired case no bullet chambers fine
2nd once fired fl sized case no bullet chambers very tight, as if case is too big for chamber
3rd neck diameter without bullet .249
4th oal after once fired 1.909
5th oal after fl sized 1.913
6th overall cartridge length not an issue because brand new unfired fl sized brass chambers fine with current load
7th some cases wont even let bolt go enough forward to close withotu feeling like i have to jam it in, other ones feel tight as i turn bolt

again this is only on fired cases, i can fl size new brass and it chambers fine

die has been set to shellholder to be tight on a sheet of copy paper when press over cam's

here is a photo, case on right is resized and you can see where the die stops, and you can feel a slight ridge or bulge here

PA170104.jpg


i have not had a problem like this on any of my other calibers .243win, 7mm-08, .308win, .270win, 30-06spg, 300rum
 

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I'm guessing it isn't broke, just over fixed--

S.W.A.G.- either large chamber or short on the minimum side of spec's for die. You load enough we can sort it out. Does your sizeing die have S B after the cartridge designation? [S B = small base]
Measure your cases, new, once fired, and f/l. check the shoulder dia., if your die is shrinking the dia. by .006" that brass is going some where out the front, maby shoulder length, maby neck length. Measure pressure ring in front of case head web. Over sizeing here will also cause
the case to grow in length. Fat case, tight die, partial neck
sizeing with f/l die can and will cause their own inherent
problems. Compile them all together, beat the bolt closed,
beat the bolt open. Duh, did I leave the part about plenty
of lube on the bolt lugs and primary extraction cam out?
Take some measurements on all the above. PM or
e-mail me with same, we can compare.
The wood on the table the cases were photographed
on has moore grain than any of my econo grade Custom stocks!

Lemme Know ? Steve moore
 
fl die set-up

If your shell holder and your bottom of die will allow a sheet of paper in that space even if it's a bit snug,you need to screw your die down a tiny bit,this may push your shoulder back a bit more than benchrest set-up,but hey we are working with a fatory chamber correct,and need to make it fit.It may only need to screw in a 32 of an inch maybe not even that much.
 
Redding

sells shellholders in + or - .001 increments if you need to adjust headspace without grinding the die. Also are the cases lubed properly ?
 
Roger ...

Roger T said:
sells shellholders in + or - .001 increments if you need to adjust headspace without grinding the die. Also are the cases lubed properly ?
Click to expand...
If you're referring to the Redding competition shell holders ... which are sold only in sets ... they're in +.002" increments. 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. See their catalog, page 14. It's a good idea if you can live with .002" incremental changes. I used them on my .223 but since having converted to the 6mm Beggs I've gone to using the Stoney Point headspace gauge attachment, with a digital caliper as Boyd has suggested. I've adjusted my full length die so I push the shoulder back only +.001". Some try for +.0005" but I'm not that good at achieving 10,000ths of an inch increments. Art
 
If you are using a size and see if it fits proceedure to set your die you need to use a different case each time.
I have sized a case, cleaned it, tried it in rifle, and then used the same case over and over till it fit. I do not know why for sure but any previously unsized case used with that die setting will not chamber or will go in extremely hard.
 
Maybe the die isn't straight...after sizing it several times you finally got it straight. The die and the chamber have to agree or it's a tail chase from the git-go..

Mike Swartz
 
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