First 600 yard IBS AR Class shoot.

C

Chisolm

Member
The AR class has been offered at the IBS 600 yard matches at Grand Island for the last year and a half, Saturday was the first time 2 IBS members showed up with an AR for the class. Both rifles are stock, a Remington R25 in .243 Win (with a stock Bushmaster trigger), 75gr VMAX and a DPMS LR 6.5 Creedmoor, 100% stock, 140gr AMAX. Below are the groups and scores.
243 win T1 score 34 Group 6.771, T2 Score 14 Goup 8.3 T3 Score 29 Group 10.920 T4 Score 22 Group 9.412 Aggs. Score 99 Group 8.851.
6.5 Creedmoor T1 Score 40 Group 4.586 T2 Score 41 Group 5.595 T3 Score 39 Group 6.302 T4 Score 27 Group 5.653 Agg Score 147 Group 5.534.

Groups and scores aren't that impressive, but remember, these guns are bone stock AR rifles.
I just thought I would post this to try to gather interest in shooting AR class at IBS matches, as you can see we left a lot of room for improvement. When you compare these to bone stock bolt rifles shot under the clock in a registered match it sure looks like there is potential.
With the current IBS rules it is a huge pain in the rear shooting the AR compaired to a bolt gun. The way the rules are currently you shoot your last sighter then you have to load your magazine between the sighter and record period because only one magazine is allowed on the bench at a time, unless this changes I see this class going nowhere very fast in long range but I think it will be no problem to get that resolved.

James
 
i would not call a 243 nor a 6.5 creedmore.."bone stock" ar's
std ar 15 is 223 and a std ar10 is 308.....
mike in co
 
james,
were these guys shooting from the mag or single loading ?
most ar's shoot better with long ammo...single loaded.
i do see the advantage of mag fed IF length ammo is accurate.
mike in co
 
Mike,
You know that single loading is not allowed in the IBS AR class.
Rifles were shot from the magazine, semi-auto fire.
The point I was trying to make by stating that they are bone stock is they are both mass produced un-modified rifles. There is a lot of room for improvement in these rifles, I was a little impressed with the group sizes given what these rifles are. The one I shot is the rifle that rides in the pickup every day and gets the crap beat out of it.
I was hoping that by showing what these mass produced rifles are capable of that we would maybe get a little more interest in the AR class.

James
 
james,
when the rules were written, i was asked for input, but it was not accepted.
i think you know that i have built dedicated BENCHREST rifles on ar platforms..which shoot well. they are short range guns.
i did not remember that single was not allowed, i knew only one mag was allowed.
the really dumb rule is that brass must stay on the shooters bench.
this is not required of bolt guns, so why ar's ?
make a simple rule for ALL guns...YOUR BRASS MAY NOT LAND ON A COMPETITIOR, NOR HIS BENCH.( ya listening jeff ??)
i do agree that well built ar's can be very accurate rifles.
mike in co
 
Chisolm said:
Mike,
You know that single loading is not allowed in the IBS AR class.
Rifles were shot from the magazine, semi-auto fire.
The point I was trying to make by stating that they are bone stock is they are both mass produced un-modified rifles. There is a lot of room for improvement in these rifles, I was a little impressed with the group sizes given what these rifles are. The one I shot is the rifle that rides in the pickup every day and gets the crap beat out of it.
I was hoping that by showing what these mass produced rifles are capable of that we would maybe get a little more interest in the AR class.

James
Click to expand...

James, the rule only states that the gun must be "capable" of semi-auto firing, not that it must be fired semi-auto. My interpretation of it is that if you want to shut the gas down and fire the gun single shot, you can, as long as you can open it back up and it function semi.--Mike Ezell
 
Mike,
I can see that it is open to interpretation. I cannot understand though what would be the point of adding an AR class then trying to make the AR a bolt gun, we already have 2 Long Range bolt gun classes.
As Dan Whitney would say "It's like wiping before you poop, it doesn't make any sense".

James
 
'cause....ar's are leass expensive than a bolt(br platform).....
'cause some of us want to actually try somethign different...anyone can buy a 6ppc br and compete...now compete with an ar...now that is different.
heck i heard a guy shot a 30-30 in BENCHREST....no way
or just because

mike in co
 
Mike,
You can shoot your single shots in the current classes, semi-autos are not allowed in current IBS classes, hence the AR class.

James
 
jeff,
i am an ibs member...but live out here in the mountain states.
is it possible to have the brass on the bench rule changed as i proposed.or even just for this class ??
the brass on the bench limits the rifle and the shooters abilities.
again it is not required in any other class.
and
we do not limit the number of rounds a bolt gun shooter can have on the bench, so why only one mag for an ar shooter ??
again it limits the gun and shooter.
thanks
mike in co
Jeff Stover said:
James,

Please contact me relative to magazines. You raise a good point.
570-660-6102 or
jstover33@comcast.net

Jeff Stover
IBS President
Click to expand...
 
Chisolm said:
Mike,
I can see that it is open to interpretation. I cannot understand though what would be the point of adding an AR class then trying to make the AR a bolt gun, we already have 2 Long Range bolt gun classes.
As Dan Whitney would say "It's like wiping before you poop, it doesn't make any sense".

James
Click to expand...


James, I'll stay out of this debate. Just giving my interpretation of the rule. I can't argue with your point, but if someone starts showing up with an AR at the ranges that I frequent, I have one to shoot and would prefer to shoot it single shot...at least in good conditions. Sometimes it may be an advantage to be semi-auto FAST!

I will add that I think it's good to leave the rules pretty open, at least until the class has a reasonable number of participants.--M
 
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Mike in co,
The brass off the bench is open to interpretation too. If a match director DQs you for having brass just roll off your bench I think he is being over exuberant, on the other hand if your brass is falling down the neck of the shooter next to you, yea I think you should be DQed.
The single mag. on the bench for Long Range matches is being addressed, I am confident it will be resolved to our liking.

James
 
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