Fire forming
- Thread starter shinny
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A
abintx
Guest
Jackie Schmidt does, lots of it. Do a Google search with this phrase "jackie schmidt fireforming with 22 caliber bullets in a 6ppc barrel" and you'll get a host of links. There's a lot of discussion here, for instance: http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-53679.html
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Jim Erickson
Member
Shinny I have used .22 cal. 55 grain bullets from Midway for years to f/f cases...works perfect. I use a mid range powder load and seat the bullets just into the lands. In this way you will still have to expand the cases slightly before you can put them on your turner mandrel but you will have straight necks and a better neck/shoulder junction to turn to.
Hope you are feeling well and over your treatments,
Jim
Hope you are feeling well and over your treatments,
Jim
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spfld
Guest
I prefer to use a charge of fast powder, fill to bottom of neck with c.o.w. then cap with a wax plug. I can attain about 95% form that way and avoid the wear on the barrel and expense of bullets. I neck cases up with a tapered expander then neck down to form a false shoulder for proper headspace. Probably isnt the best way, but has worked for me with my 6MM AI.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Vern,
I have done what you describe, and when I have I have fired into a bank, at an angle, from a close enough distance that there was no worry of a bullet going over a back stop. The bullets come out at a good rate. I would not risk my chronograph to find out what the velocity is. To facilitate straight seating in the slightly expanded .220 Russian cases, I find that BT bullets are a good idea. I have used some inexpensive 55 grainers that were handy. Since the difference in case and chamber volume, and the bullet not sealing the bore limit the pressure, with normal burning rate powders, and I have wanted to conserve my supply of 133, I did my last fire forming (with this method) using Benchmark, filled, by eyeball, to the base of the bullet. It seemed to work fine. One more tip that you might consider if your chamber has a .262 neck, by turning the majority of the brass at .22 caliber, before fire forming ( I set my turner to produce a neck thickness of .010.) and then fire forming, you are left with less expanding to do to turn at 6mm, which results in straighter finished cases.
I have done what you describe, and when I have I have fired into a bank, at an angle, from a close enough distance that there was no worry of a bullet going over a back stop. The bullets come out at a good rate. I would not risk my chronograph to find out what the velocity is. To facilitate straight seating in the slightly expanded .220 Russian cases, I find that BT bullets are a good idea. I have used some inexpensive 55 grainers that were handy. Since the difference in case and chamber volume, and the bullet not sealing the bore limit the pressure, with normal burning rate powders, and I have wanted to conserve my supply of 133, I did my last fire forming (with this method) using Benchmark, filled, by eyeball, to the base of the bullet. It seemed to work fine. One more tip that you might consider if your chamber has a .262 neck, by turning the majority of the brass at .22 caliber, before fire forming ( I set my turner to produce a neck thickness of .010.) and then fire forming, you are left with less expanding to do to turn at 6mm, which results in straighter finished cases.
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
A Google search with this phrase "jackie schmidt fireforming with 22 caliber bullets in a 6ppc barrel" does not provide a link...
Anyone have an actual link to articles by Jackie?
Anyone have an actual link to articles by Jackie?
Boyd Allen
Active member
Yes, that is one way to do it, and I have done it that way. James Mock has written about doing that way. That is where I got the idea. I added one more step, the turning at .22 cal.,before fireforming, that I mentioned above.
Boyd Allen
Active member
I am not recommending that anyone do it this way, just telling you that I have. I have a fire forming barrel. If I believed that it was dangerous, i would not have done it, but I am not telling you anything about what you should do, or that it is safe. I first tried a couple using one of my good barrels, checking afterwords for any unusual signs of copper fouling. I didn't find any. The powder that I uses was one that is in the correct burning range for loading a 6PPC. The bullets were .22 cal. 55 gr. HPBTs because they were cheap, available, and the BT produces easy relatively straight seating with Wilson 6PPC seater. There are lots of other ways to fire form 6PPC cases from .220 Russian.
I got the idea from Richard Milton...who has been using this method since the '70s. It is safer than cereal/bullseye/COW/ or any other method that I have tried. To answer a question above; the .22 bullet comes out a substantial velocity with the potential to kill. Always fire into a safe backstop at close range. I can shoot about a 2 foot group at 50 yards. James
Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
James upon what do you base the statement that it is safer than bullseye with a 1/16" thick wax topper?
I have always noticed that the moment this process is mentioned everyone wants to condemn it but as yet I have seen no real factual reason that it should not be done.
I have been doing it this way for years as have many other people. It would seem to be a whole lot safer than getting a .22 jammed into a 6mm barrel bu accident.
I tried the powder and cornmeal for 2 rounds but didnt feel like it was blowing the case out far enough so I stuck with the was topper. All the wax does is hold the powder in the case. The primers do not show signs of excess pressure or anything else. I have even done this in the convenience of home using a roll of insulation.
I have always noticed that the moment this process is mentioned everyone wants to condemn it but as yet I have seen no real factual reason that it should not be done.
I have been doing it this way for years as have many other people. It would seem to be a whole lot safer than getting a .22 jammed into a 6mm barrel bu accident.
I tried the powder and cornmeal for 2 rounds but didnt feel like it was blowing the case out far enough so I stuck with the was topper. All the wax does is hold the powder in the case. The primers do not show signs of excess pressure or anything else. I have even done this in the convenience of home using a roll of insulation.
Bob Kingsbury
New member
Firing 22 bullets down a 6 barrel is a bit more envolved than the Bulleye-pistol powder routine, but I like it. Firing into a dirt bank
one can tell if the bullet has left the barrel. I haven't been able to reach the right concoction with pistol powders. My dedicated
fire form barrel will eventually be retired and it will be sawed in half lengthwise and used to study copper solvents. It has not
been cleaned in 500 rds . The only cases I have lost where already iffy out of the box. Dupont 4198 @ 24grs works fine and
a cheap hunting bullet of 55 grs
one can tell if the bullet has left the barrel. I haven't been able to reach the right concoction with pistol powders. My dedicated
fire form barrel will eventually be retired and it will be sawed in half lengthwise and used to study copper solvents. It has not
been cleaned in 500 rds . The only cases I have lost where already iffy out of the box. Dupont 4198 @ 24grs works fine and
a cheap hunting bullet of 55 grs
SAFER! Although I have not seen the results of using pistol powder (personally), my friend Richard Milton blew up his XP-100 action using bullseye. He is the one that told me to use a .22 bullet with rifle powder to get nice straight cases with which to work. I have shot hundreds down the same fireforming barrel with no problems. Good shooting...James No, he did not use a bullet with the Bullseye.
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Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
Did he use a bullet with bullseye?
I have never heard of anyone having a problem with it.
One of your good friends was the one who started me doing that and so far I have had good luck.
The think I like best is that when I turn my necks I am dead on where the neck shoulder junction meets.
Along with the fact that the range is 1 1/2 hours from me and I really dont want to drive that far to fireform. I can do it at home.
I have never heard of anyone having a problem with it.
One of your good friends was the one who started me doing that and so far I have had good luck.
The think I like best is that when I turn my necks I am dead on where the neck shoulder junction meets.
Along with the fact that the range is 1 1/2 hours from me and I really dont want to drive that far to fireform. I can do it at home.