Fire Forming Brass

K

Kimberguy2004

Guest
I'll start by saying I'm new to rifles and handloading for rifles, so I'll write my observations and hope someone will correct me where I may be off a little.
The other day, I broke in a new Rem 700 .243. I used a couple of different loads and everything went well, accuracy was so-so. I'm using new Winchester brass, trimmed, chamfered, primer pockets squared, flash holes deburred, etc, so I think I'm on the right track there.
I have a Sinclair concentricity gauge, and I was going to check my loads for runout. I measured necks on fired cases and almost everycase measured .001-.002 variance. I can live with that. I had somerounds left over and I broke them down, mainly because of excessive runout. I checked runout on all of them and almost all of them showed a large amount of runout, several measuring .008", making me think the brass wasn't straight. I also measured the necks on new brass that I havn't loaded and again the mesurments were all over the map. That leads me to conclude that cases need to be fireformed before I start culling cases for being crooked.
What I need are instructions on how to fire form cases without having to send a bullet down the barrel. I read somewhere about loading the cases with pistol powder and firing them to fire form the brass. Can someone be specific on how to do that? All comments recommendations welcome.
 
you may not get a procedure for that due to safety concerns. just load a reduced load with a bullet- why don't you want to do that?
 
sorry- do not reduce it too far for the same reasons you don't want to overload it. I should've said "minimum load"
 
It's m understanding that barrel longevity is not that great on a .243 and I'm just trying to get to the best accuracy and save wear on the throat and the bore.
 
Buy a box of Lapua 243 brass. Chances are you will not have to do anything to them. That one box may just last for the life of the barrel....Donald
 
Kimberguy,


I'll sidetrack you a little :)


If you really DO want to make your fireforming meaningful then you must find a way to get the case tightly butted into the chamber.

----loading long won't do it.

----greasing your cases won't do it.

----fireforming without a bullet won't help either.......


You must neck UP the neck with say a .260 mandrel and then neck it back DOWN with your .243FL die.........but you must start with your die backed 'way off and work slowly down until you can chamber the round but with some effort. You need to get it to where you have to palm the bolt closed with the heel of your hand, TIGHT.

GREASE YOUR BOLT LUGS!!!


Now............as to fireforming using pistol powder. Let me recommend that you first try it with shotgun powder to see if you like it. You'll wreck 4-8 pcs of brass getting going but then you'll be peachy.


Remember this one rule.........you only get ONE SHOT to blow out your brass.


ONE!!!!!


After that you're only sharpening up the corners........ONE shot sets the brass forever.


So, no matter which method you use your goal is to get the charge up until ONE shot pops the case out to shape.



To recap:
--JAM-fit the brass
--GREASE- the bolt lugs
--ONE SHOT- to get 'er done




As for using the shottygun powder or pistol powder, here's the safe deal. Start by using shotgun powder like Clays or Superlite or whatever and start with 1/3 casefull. I won't even list a charge, just use 1/3 full case but WEIGH it and WRITE IT DOWN. Now step outside and holding the rifle at arms length and pointing it straight up........pooofff.....no wad, no wax, no nuttin'......just 1/3 casefull of shotgun powder and point it up at the sky.


You can arrive at the 1/3 by eyeballing it or by actually filling the case w/powder and dividing by 3 but start LOW!


It should just poof.


Now here's where you gotta' be smart. From here on go up about 1/10 weight per charge. At some point it'll go from "poof" to POP! And from there on it'll start to recoil.........not recoil as in really kick but it'll go from POP! to boom to BOOM as you go up. Once you get the charge up to where you want to be, probably about 1/4" below the shoulder, you may start using Kleenex wadding if you want and fireforming horizontally.


If you want to use pistol powder you must start much LOWER the initial charge..........an old formula for Bullseye is to use 1/10 the powder capacity of the case to start. Trickle the case clear full of Bullseye, weigh it and divide by 10. This is your starting charge.


Also with Bullseye you must increase your charges SLOWER......like 1gr increments. Be careful w/Bullseye. Sometime somewhere somebody will tell you "just load a case full of Bullseye up to the neck and go for it"....DON'T DO IT!!!!


This will purportedly work for the PPC case but will NOT work for anything else!!! I've heard for years of folks making PPC brass this way, I've never had reason to test it, but I HAVE tested more conventional bottlenecked cartridges and can state with fair certainty that if you try that with your .243 you'll break something.





Fireforming with powder only is perfectly safe IF you take proper safety precautions.

---safety glasses/hearing protection
---proper backstop
---slow, cautious buildup of charge
---fireform into a non-flammable medium



In other words, it's just the same as shooting bullets............and it'll wear your barrel just like shooting bullets.


Contrary to "conventional wisdom" the .243 does NOT "burn up barrels" any worse than anything else in it's size class. Enjoy it for a long time :)



hth




al
 
BTW, regarding fireforming in general.........I've found that using FAST powder/LIGHT bullet loads will fireform better than slow powder/heavy bullet loads.



For instance, use a 70gr bullet and say 4350 to fireform the .243 instead of using 4831 and a 105gr bullet.


Once you've gotten comfortable with the entire reloading/load workup process in general you may want to experiment with making brass for accuracy reasons, some brass shoots better than others. In large part this accuracy has to do with HOW the brass was fireformed.


For me, the stoutest load the brass ever sees is likely to be the fireform load. Once you've established some loads I'll suggest that you use a max 70gr load for fireforming, loading down will only make your brass form crooked and soft. I use light bullets, fast powder and run the load up to just under making an ejector mark, JUUUST under........


SMACK that brass..... :D ..... and it'll treat you right.



al
 
We Agree

al, we agree!!!!!!!!!!

Jam fitting brass into a chamber for that first firing is oh so very important. If not formed right, you will just increase the wear and tear on the web area and poof - bye bye brass. I don't use as much chambering force on the bolt but I do want to feel the brass from the final 1/3 to fully close.

Just like when you think, I need to bump that shoulder cause it is getting a bit stiff to chamber.

I use the Cream of wheat/Cornmeal method. Any LR primer - pistol is fine too.

A small charge of Win231/HP38/Titegroup (google and you will find starting loads). If you want to go Red dot, just use a bit less - Unique a bit more. Fill to the base of the neck with cow or cornmeal (no instant stuff - very important). Stuff a piece of paper towel into the neck to hold everything tight. go fire it at the range.

Key is make sure you don't tilt or shake the case when stacking up these components. The COW/cornmeal will not mix into the flake powder once held down with the paper towel. You must have separate layers!!!!!!

Goes pop and out comes a formed case. Swab the chamber and bore after every 5 to 10 shots or whenever you see a bit of denting on the case (loose cow/cornmeal). You are just getting rid of any stuff not cleaning. I just run my cleaning brush down the bore twice, around the chamber to clear any loose stuff, back at it. A spray can for blowing out keyboards is nice to get rid of any powder in the action.

You can form 50cases in a 10mins without overheating your pipe and maybe, just maybe - organically lapping your bore ;)

Do your normal case prep and load'em up. I use this method to also size up my cases and to form improved shoulders.

DO NOT USE THIS FORM OF FORMING WHEN IT IS RAINING OR VERY HIGH HUMIDITY. DO NOT LEAVE PREPPED CASES SITTING AROUND FOR MORE THEN A DAY.

You have to make sure that the cow/cornmeal never gets wet cause it will solidify and well........that's not the forming you want to do.

Jerry
 
Kimberguy2004 said:
It's m understanding that barrel longevity is not that great on a .243 and I'm just trying to get to the best accuracy and save wear on the throat and the bore.
Click to expand...

The bbl on a rifle is like the tires on a car. If you use it they wear out. When they are worn out you get new ones. When you buy the new ones you have the option of upgrading. The upgraded stuff typically pays dividends far beyond the extra cost.
 
The light bullet/fast powder idea sounds pretty reasonable to me. I have the following powders.. 2460,Varget,H322, and 748. Would any of these be suitable or sould I go for a specific one. As I said above, I'm new to long guns and I'm not very educated on burn rates of the various rifle powders.. This is a whole new world from handguns and it's a lot of fun.. There's just so much to learn and I tend to get a little impatient sometimes..
Sometimes, HELL!! God, give me patience.. RIGHT NOW!!!
 
H322 is WICKED fast for the .243.........don't go over 70gr bullets with it, in fact I'd probably only recommend that you use it with the little 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tips........


AA2460 is also hot/fast for the big case, use ONLY light bullets and be careful, you'll get in trouble fast.


VARget is a nice safe powder for light bullets, gentle.


748 would not be my choice for fireforming. but then I haven't used more than a couple pounds of the stuff......


IMO the SAFEST choice for a beginner fireforming with 70gr bullets is something like 4350 or maybe H380......


Always remember, SLOW powder for BIG bullets and FASTER powder for SMALLER bullets...........fast powder and big bullets will put you into Quiet World........i HATE quiet world :( scrabbling around on your stumps looking for your retinas aint fun.


WEAR that safety gear and read the manuals carefully! And don't mis-match ANY components from the book for now. If the book sez WIN brass and REM primers and HOGDON powder and NOSLER bullet then stick wit' it! Some primers do not react well with some powders........even something a little as the primer can SPIKE a .243 like WHAM!!!


have fun


be safe



al
 
You're making way too much out of this process.

Go buy some suitable powder and bullets, follow the reloading manual instructions and shoot your rifle. Tinker with seating depth and powder charges to see what makes it shoot best. Then it's matter of finding something useful to do with your rifle and new found favorite load.

You're going way overboard on fireforming brass in a factory chamber. This is a complete waste of time, effort and materials. Use your fireforming with real ammo to help find what the rifle likes. Don't worry about wearing out your barrel - they really are like tires and you can get a better one after this one wears out.
 
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