Fellas, I need some ideas, or help, or both!

L

llogan7708

Guest
I have a Ruger Model 77 MII Target rifle in .223. with a 1:12 twist. I have managed one decent five shot group of .274 with the gun. My frustration is that I will usually have a good grouping of three or four shots, and then one or two flyers. And these are significant flyers.....an inch or more out. The gun shoots best when I use a 53 gr Sierra HPFB Match bullet and 26.5 grains of AA2460. I seat it .005 short of the lands. I've also tried H322, Varget, 8208 XBR, and N-133. The flyer issue is constant, regardless of powder.

Does anyone have any idea what's going on, and how to solve it? I've even tried gaskets on the barrel, in a feeble attempt to neutralize some of the harmonics.

Help Please

Les
 
Hi Les,

I would look at the simple things that can go wrong.
Scope and scope mounts;
torque for the action;
Is the barrel really floating;
Is the action bedded/should it be;
Taking a good look at the crown; and
Are you using a bipod, rest, bag(technique).

I would tackle each point individually, followed by a clean rifle, fouling shots and a range session. This would indicate to you what change each correction makes to your grouping.

Don't get your knickers in a knot too quickly. There is an answer. Keep the positive thoughts going.

Cheers,

Phil aka tazzman
 
Les,
Let me ask a few questions.
What are your expectations for this rifle?
The things Taz listed are valid.
Getting an occasional 1/4" group for a good factory rifle is normal, but then that is occasional.

ONE of the most important things I have not seen is wind flags, that could reallllly explain those flyers.
Full blown benchrest guns capable of of shooing sub .2' consistently can have a hard time shooting 1/2" in hard winds.
Also what kind of front rest are you using?
I would suggest full br bullets but I dont think it will help until you get some of the other issues addressed.
 
Do all of the aforementioned 'stuff' but remember, factory rifles is what they are. If they were as accurate as custom rifles, custom rifles wouldn't exist.

I would be happy with 3/4" groups at best from an M77 with 1.5" being more the expected norm. Anything under an inch "you got a good one."

BTW I spent many years with factory rifles. I even went to gunsmithing school, the real deal not a home course, and learned how to customize and fix rifles. I thought I was perty good and I shore got good at making excuses. Then one day I bit the bullet and ordered a rifle from a Bench Rest Gunsmith, nearly a year later I got it........ and it was as if the sun had riz on a new day. The roosters crowed, birdies sung, the worms turned and I shot liddle itty bitty groups one right after the other.

AND THE WIND MADE SENSE!!!!!

This is the single biggest thing, with an accurate rifle, a REALLY accurate rifle, you can see the wind. And no you don't need windflags to shoot one-hole groups when you've got time and conditions on your side you WILL shoot little groups. NO fliers, NO "called misses," NO "why did that go THERE???"

It's like reaching out with a really looooong Magic Marker and putting a dot just THERE on your target. I shot my first bug at 186yds (the length of my home range) the second day out.....and speaking of flags, it's WICKED cool to hold off in the wind and friggin' loop the ball in like ping pong, but it takes a custom rifle to do it.


IMO


al
 
Full blown benchrest guns capable of of shooing sub .2' consistently can have a hard time shooting 1/2" in hard winds.
Click to expand...

Or worse....

Flags will help you Les... Surveyors tape on a few poles to shoot over .. Your rifle is probably consistently accurate enough to see the gains... If, you feel this .223 is a true 1/2 MOA or better rifle right now, then flags will be of a big asset.

If not, say > 1/2 MOA.. Flags my not help enough for you to see the wind effects and "steer" that gun to smaller groups...

Take your load....
The gun shoots best when I use a 53 gr Sierra HPFB Match bullet and 26.5 grains of AA2460. I seat it .005 short of the lands.
Click to expand...

Then...

Can you shoot 5 three shot groups in light steady conditions and get a combind 1/2" agg or better ..? If so, your gun/load is then probably capable of this accuracy for 5 shot groups...

3 shots prove a gun/load... 5 shots prove the shooters ability with the conditions...

Factory rifles can drive one NUTS...........
cale
 
Thanks for all the replies. I certainly don't expect this thing to shoot like my 6mm PPC, but I want to be able to shoot factory class occasionally and not spray the target. We do set up wind flags most of the time, and occasionally shoot indoors for testing. I'm using a 32X scope, so I am putting the target dot in the same place. As much as I hate to admit it, my results may be the best I get. I did loosen the center guard screw, as suggested, so I'll see if this has any effect on Sunday. Thanks to everyone for the advice.
 
It hasn't been bedded as far as I know. Isn't that something I can do myself?
 
The M-77, with the angled front screw is "different" to bed. You'd need to do some research specific to it.

How's the trigger in the M-77? Does your factory class allow an aftermarket trigger?
 
Amen to what SG says about bedding a Ruger 77. The front guard screw will pull the barrel down in front and lift the tang, so you'll have to put something under the barrel at the forend tip of the stock while bedding the front of the action (back to the receiver cut) and use the well oiled front guard screw lightly snugged up (just enough to pull the action down into the resin and line things up) to hold it together. After that's done, apart and cleaned up, bed the tang with the front guard screw snugged up tight (50-60 in lb on a Ruger is okay if you've got allen guard screws), and the rear screw just lightly screwed in to keep the holes clear of epoxy. Better yet make a guide pin from a long screw with the proper threads and long enough to extend past the lower stock line.

If you try to bed a Ruger 77 like you'd bed a rifle with vertical guard screws you're likely to discover the meaning of grief, unless you enjoy digging/grinding hardened epoxy out of rifle stocks that is.
 
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