F-TR question .223 vs. .308

M

mrbeer

Guest
I am interested in shooting F-TR, but I have one global question. Is there a separate class for .223 and .308 withing the F-TR class. If not, why would anyone ever shoot .223 in F-TR. I am interested in the challenge of .223 at those distances, but if there is no chance of ever being competitive at 1000 yards with .223 against .308, it would be good to know before I invest in a rifle.

Any Input you have would be helpful.

Thanks!
 
mrbeer,

yes .223R can hold its own against .308W in 1,000yd F-TR competition. You need to load 90gn Berger or JLK high-BC bullets and these need a 1-7" twist barrel (maybe 1-7.5" at a pinch), plus a VERY long freebore chamber to allow these exceptionally long bullets to be seated well out in the case.

The 90gn Berger VLD has a G7 BC of 0.281 v 0.283 for the Berger 0.308" 185gn Target BT Long-Range, arguably the finest bullet for F-TR in the .308W. (0.551 v 0.553 G1 BCs). You can get the same or even better MVs in the .223 with a suitable chamber from Re15 or Viht N550 as from .308W with 185s. I run the VLD at a shade under 2,900 fps, and the Berger 90gn BT Long-Range at around 2,850 fps with Re15 using a Savage 12 single-shot target action and 31" 1-7" True-Flite 6-groove barrel. You might not get these MVs in the USA from this action though without piercing primers - we're a lot cooler here in the UK in our summer. A BAT, Barnard etc would be a nice bit of insurance here. A Remington 700 needs the firing pin turned down and bolt sleeved if you want to get anywhere near these MVs.

Downsides - it's a fussy little so and so! Primer sensitive too, likewise appreciates quality and prepared brass. It's a much more difficult proposition than .308W to get loads that produce small MV spreads, in fact it's very easy indeed to get 40 fps + ES values.

There will be some who simply won't believe that any .223 load will work at 1,000yd. Have a look at these websites:

http://ukbra.webs.com/newslinkscompetitions.htm

and scroll down to 'Latest Competition Results'; click onto 1.8.10 1000 yard BR. The fourth place man is me with three sub-10" groups with the .223. Don't ask about the first 14" group - me not the rifle and cartridge!


http://fclassuk.webs.com/competitions.htm

Report on the GB F-Class Assoc national league round 5 at Blair Atholl's notorious Glen Tilt range two weeks ago. Five matches at 1,000yd - 7th in F-TR with the .223R on its first long-range F-Class outing. Spoiled by a score 6 or 7 rounds off the pace in Match 1 that I wasn't able to recover from. 412.11 ex a possible 450.90. (Our Bull scores 5.)

Finally, for a description of the rifle and the philosophy behind it, visit the free online magazine:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/

for part 1 in the current August issue of a feature jointly by me and the rifle's builder Vince Bottomley. Part 2 will describe the piece in greater depth and first results in the next issue, online on 1st September. I will cover handloading .223/90 in the November and December issues.

So, if you fancy .223 it'll do the business, but it is harder work than .308W in the handloading and load-development side. It will NOT match the ballistics of a hot .308W load with 210gn VLDs, but then it will be much easier to shoot accurately and consistently than such loadings in the bigger cartridge.

I hope these points help. Good shooting.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Last edited by a moderator:
+1 for .223 Rem. in F/TR! 77 gr. SMK's work great for 300, 80's for 500 & 600, Berger 90's for 800, 900 & 1K as Laurie stated. I followd his lead with the 1-7", throated it so all the bullets I listed would work and have had a blast.

Most F-Class here in the States isn't fired at 1K anyway, most is reduced course Mid-Range, 300-600 yds. where a .223 can shine.
 
I shoot f-class at 600 yards with my custom ar-15 with a 28 inch krieger barrel 1:6.5 twist using berger 90 gr over varget and I am competitive on all but the worst days. It is alot more diffacult to use the .223 but it is a very capable round. I did build a new rifle this year and it is a .308 win so I guess you can say I'm a convert. Thought it would be less finicky with the wind at 1000 yards.
 
It all depends on the ranges you will commonly shoot at. If 1000 yard matches are going to a common part of your shooting schedule, I would stay with 308 W. Yes, you can go with to a 6.5 twist barrel and hang 90 vld's out, but that is one of the combo's that people either get to shoot or don't get to shoot.

308 W can really perform at close range too,, I did a 17 twist barrel on a 308 and scored a 600-48x in a 300 yard match using Berger 115 flat base bullet. While my chamber has only .010" freebore,,, a friend of mine tested my ammo in his longer freebore / faster twist barrel and still did well, but larger groupings.
 
Yes, you can go with to a 6.5 twist barrel and hang 90 vld's out, but that is one of the combo's that people either get to shoot or don't get to shoot.

1-6.5" twist rates seem to have been part of the .223 Rem long-Range problem. 1-7" is fine and works better. It's likely that even that rate will turn out to be faster than optimal. I have a 1-7.5" twist barrel on order to try that at some point.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Back
Top