Extreme velocity spread
- Thread starter stiller
- Start date
M
MKnarr
Guest
Here are some result for Eley Match EPS from an Anschutz 54 stock barrel.
STD/ES
6.9/35
8.0/23
8.5/38
7.6/28
8.2/32
6.0/21
6.0/23
11.7/55
8.1/32
10.4/42
The 6.0/23 was the best lot I ever shot. Unfortunately, I'm at the bottom of the feeding order so I don't get many good lots.
Chronograph is a CED MII set at 10 feet from the barrel. Testing is done at 6900 feet elevation.
STD/ES
6.9/35
8.0/23
8.5/38
7.6/28
8.2/32
6.0/21
6.0/23
11.7/55
8.1/32
10.4/42
The 6.0/23 was the best lot I ever shot. Unfortunately, I'm at the bottom of the feeding order so I don't get many good lots.
Chronograph is a CED MII set at 10 feet from the barrel. Testing is done at 6900 feet elevation.
These numbers
are fairly large. Seems 30 fps is average ES. Have others seen this also. If so, dealing with 30 FPS is needed. My math shows 30 fps to cause over .12 change in elevation at the 50 yard target. Thanks for the information. Anybody else have data on eley black or tenex or lapua??
are fairly large. Seems 30 fps is average ES. Have others seen this also. If so, dealing with 30 FPS is needed. My math shows 30 fps to cause over .12 change in elevation at the 50 yard target. Thanks for the information. Anybody else have data on eley black or tenex or lapua??
Bill Wynne
Active member
I did this a couple of years ago with similar results. As I recall, that is about the same spread that I got with my hand loads in hunting rifles.
Maybe we both are bargain hunters when we bought our chronographs. Another possibility is that our ammo is not quite that consistent and our chronographs are right on.
I don't believe that we can use our rifles and our watches to measure distance.
Concho Bill
Maybe we both are bargain hunters when we bought our chronographs. Another possibility is that our ammo is not quite that consistent and our chronographs are right on.
I don't believe that we can use our rifles and our watches to measure distance.
Concho Bill
T
Tom C.
Guest
i thought there weren't any favored feeders mknarr? at least that seems
to be what i've read in here. thanks for the info.
to be what i've read in here. thanks for the info.
Last edited by a moderator:
T
tim in tx
Guest
may i ask
how much can the ambient temp change velocities ,say per every 10 degrees?if that is a reasonable question given the velocities have a fairly large extreme spreads .thanks tim in tx
how much can the ambient temp change velocities ,say per every 10 degrees?if that is a reasonable question given the velocities have a fairly large extreme spreads .thanks tim in tx
B
Brian Voelker
Guest
30 extreme spread would put it in the middle of the pack. Look for something in the 15- range. 10 es is really good stuff. The test I did on Eley early 9-3-09 showed the Tenex with close to the 15 es and the Match EPS with similar except in one barrel.
BV
BV
B
Brian_K
Guest
Here are some results from 18 batches of Tenex taken at Eley a couple of months ago.
GD is Eleys term for Extreme Spread
GD is Eleys term for Extreme Spread
Bill Wynne
Active member
Makes you stop and think.
Gee! Even Eley uses a bargain chronograph.
Concho Bill
Gee! Even Eley uses a bargain chronograph.
Concho Bill
M
MKnarr
Guest
Not to be contentious Bill but I don't consider a $200 chronograph a bargain. BTW, the lot that was 6.0 STD and 21 ES was 5.9 STD and 19 ES in a 10/22 with a Lilja barrel.
Will be Interesting
To see if those numbers match up with the barrels and Chrony's on this side of the pond. Pulled some of my old slips, and found my best shooting lot's, were Team 1053fps SD 2.9 /5. 9 ES, and OSP 1053 fps SD 6.6 /25.6
they were shot in two different barrels. Worst part, was I ran out of both, and now have to try and find something else.
To see if those numbers match up with the barrels and Chrony's on this side of the pond. Pulled some of my old slips, and found my best shooting lot's, were Team 1053fps SD 2.9 /5. 9 ES, and OSP 1053 fps SD 6.6 /25.6
they were shot in two different barrels. Worst part, was I ran out of both, and now have to try and find something else.
Last edited:
Joe Entrekin
New member
I chrono'd several lots of black box over my Oehler 35, and got similar results.
Bill Wynne
Active member
MK,
I didn't mean for my comments to demean our chronographs in any way.
I don't think it is the chronograph giving us false readings. Even Eley is having similar results at their indoor facility in England with their Chronograph. I believe it is what the ammo is. Like the wind, it is one more factor we have to live with it.
The bullets are lead covered in goop and they are crimped into the brass case. The case has never been fired-formed in our rifles and the primer is pored into the case and the powder is thrown. Consider the powder, it is about 1 grain. consider how hard it is to throw powder without being one tenth of a grain more or less. We would be talking about an increase or a decrease of 10%.
When you consider all these factors, it is a wonder those bullets shoot as consistently as they do.
Concho Bill
Last edited:
HuskerP7M8
Member
I’ve got nearly a thousand rds chronographed and this is a representative sample.
Most of the time when I’ve been under an ES of 20 ft/sec, its been with sample sizes of less than 50 rds.
I’ll be firing over a dual chrono system when my tunnel is completed and may have additional data in 3 to 6 months.
Eley Team 60 rds:
Hi 1083.0
Low 1043.0
Average 1064.8
ES 40.0
Std Dev 9.1
Eley Tenex 48 rds:
High: 1097
Low: 1068
E.S.: 29
Ave.: 1082
S.D.: 7.5
Eley Tenex 50 rds:
Hi 1089.0
Low 1057.0
Average 1072.4
ES 32.0
Std Dev 7.8
Bill Wynne, I’m almost sure you were “tongue in cheek” with your comments about chronograph accuracy, but I recently did some testing with 2 CED M2’s equipped with infrared emitters and was pretty happy with the results. A 2.87 ft/sec uncertainty for 95% confidence with my specific chronos seems pretty good.
Landy
Most of the time when I’ve been under an ES of 20 ft/sec, its been with sample sizes of less than 50 rds.
I’ll be firing over a dual chrono system when my tunnel is completed and may have additional data in 3 to 6 months.
Eley Team 60 rds:
Hi 1083.0
Low 1043.0
Average 1064.8
ES 40.0
Std Dev 9.1
Eley Tenex 48 rds:
High: 1097
Low: 1068
E.S.: 29
Ave.: 1082
S.D.: 7.5
Eley Tenex 50 rds:
Hi 1089.0
Low 1057.0
Average 1072.4
ES 32.0
Std Dev 7.8
Bill Wynne, I’m almost sure you were “tongue in cheek” with your comments about chronograph accuracy, but I recently did some testing with 2 CED M2’s equipped with infrared emitters and was pretty happy with the results. A 2.87 ft/sec uncertainty for 95% confidence with my specific chronos seems pretty good.
Landy
B
Brian_K
Guest
Exactly.
I’ve been to Eley three times now. To be honest I don’t even look at what’s written on the box. To let the ES, FPS or machine number influence your decision to buy a particular lot is nonsense. What matters is to buy the batch that shoots the smallest, roundest 40 shot group.
In the results above I bought batch 1009-04190 because that shot the best group in my FWB 2700 – it also shot the best group in my Lilja barrelled Anschutz, so I figure I have a good batch of ammo that will shoot well in at least two rifles.
Unfortunately my sporter prefers Lapua X-Act, so it doesn’t get used that much
Brian
M
MKnarr
Guest
Sorry Bill, I guess I misunderstood your intent. Sort of like wind flags lying I guess. Anyway.
I tested 4 lots of Eley Match EPS earlier this year and here are the results. All tested at the same time, in fact the lots were tested 1 group from each lot at a time until I was finished so wind/conditions were randomized for all.
You can guess which one had the best, roundest groups. Before I got my chronograph, I also went only by the group sizes but it's very comforting to see some data which I have no control over and be able to make a better informed decision before plunk down $1000.
I tested 4 lots of Eley Match EPS earlier this year and here are the results. All tested at the same time, in fact the lots were tested 1 group from each lot at a time until I was finished so wind/conditions were randomized for all.
You can guess which one had the best, roundest groups. Before I got my chronograph, I also went only by the group sizes but it's very comforting to see some data which I have no control over and be able to make a better informed decision before plunk down $1000.
Last edited by a moderator:
A
Az_Speed
Guest
I'm inexperienced and a lousy guesser so which one did have the smallest, roundest group? How much better was it than your next best group? Lastly, did all the groups sort out exactly according to your chronograph results and did it seem linear based on the std dev or on extreme spread?
Bill Wynne
Active member
Stephen Boelter, a shooter who post on this site, wrote a book entitled "The Rifleman's Guide to Rimfire Ammunition" published in 2006 in which he tested all the rimfire ammunition that he could find for group and for speed.
It would be good if Steve would through in some of his thoughts on this subject. In writing this book and in testing all of the ammo through the chronograph, Steve had made himself one of the top experts in the world on rimfire ammo.
Concho Bill
It would be good if Steve would through in some of his thoughts on this subject. In writing this book and in testing all of the ammo through the chronograph, Steve had made himself one of the top experts in the world on rimfire ammo.
Concho Bill
M
MKnarr
Guest
I modified the data in my above post to include the average of 6 groups in each lot and no they did not track exactly. Note the second lot actually had the second smallest group avg. but with the Extreme spread of 55 FPS, I'm sure that lot would come back to bite me in the butt sometime. Having chronographed a lot of ammo, I know for certain that a lot of match ammo, Eley Match included, will have rounds that are low velocity compared to the remainder of the lot. If I ignored one round in that lot that was at 1005 fps, the sigma drops to 9.6 and the ES drops to 34 FPS. I also know for certain that that one round will very likely be low on the target. And in fact, that one round was low and opened the group up from about .25 to .387.
My point is, without the chronograph results, I may have chalked that one round up to me and might have purchased that lot. Besides 50 yard benchrest for score, I also shoot 100 yard group matches and Benchrest Silhouette matches at 65, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters. That one round could cost me a match in either discipline if used at 100 yards and beyond.