Extreem Noobie Q's

M

mdt700

Guest
Forgive me, and be gentle.... This seems to be a site with folks who know a lot, and I don't, so I'm asking for your help....

I got my first ever bolt gun about 6 weeks ago, with the purpose of nothing but target shooting at a variety of distances, just because, well, it is fun. Rem 700 SPS, .243. Replaced the stock with a B&C varmint/tactical stock, has a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 scope on it, Harris bipod, added a tactical bolt.

First 200 or so rounds were factory ammo, but I quickly started reloading for it. I'm a bit more accurate with my handloads than factory, but not by much. Varget, 39 grns, Hornady 75 grn V-max BT bullets. I have about 300 or so rounds through it altogether.

I have times when I shoot 3-4 shots of about .3-.5 inches (100 yrds) then I have wildcat shots where a couple will stray to 1.5, sometimes even more. Inconsistent .3-1.75 groups is not good shooting, I know that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy with CONSISTENT .3-.7 inch or so groups. I'm not looking to be a competitor or spend a ton of $$.

What advice, other than routine practice, do you have in terms of technique, reloading, cleaning, equipment, etc?? Any advice is welcome, because right now although I'm having fun with it, I'm just tinkering and experimenting semi-blindly....

Thanks
 
There are several things you can try to get your rifle shooting a bit better. How clean is your barrel? Are you getting the bullets to the lands on your hand loads? You might not be able to on a factory rifle? What twist does your rifle have? I am assuming a 9 twist which should shoot the 75gr bullets. Try another bullet ( berger 68gr) or ( 75gr v-max) and if that doesnt work try a different powder. Probably the best advise would be to read as much as you can on hand loading. By the book of basic handloading ( or something like that). Read the book and then make sure your rifle barrel is free of carbon and copper! Finding the right load for a rifle is half the fun, enjoy and be safe. Dont ever put more powder than listed in the manual. Start low with the powder charge and work up. Good luck brother!! Lee
 
Thanks, that's a start. I've read, and read on reloading. I'm not quite a noobie there, although with this rifle so far I've only shot one recipe (but I've got more waiting).

How much, in practical terms, does a hot barrel make in terms of accuracty?

What about barrel cleaning while at the range? I tend to shoot about 50 round in about 70 minutes or so. Tried letting it cool, and cleaning it, but none of that explaines my inaccuracy (I don't think) more than probably my own lack of dicipline at the trigger/stock etc....

Fun as hell, just wish I were more consistent...
 
Md.
The best thing to do is join a club. That shoots Benchrest.
Most clubs have a local club/fun shoots. That is a start.
Then maybe, a fellow club member will be shooting a custom rifle.
Then the fun starts......
The club system will expose you to a lot of stuff.
If there is an NBRSA or IBS club in your neighborhood???
That's the best place to start.
By the way. My factory rifles sit in the safe. :eek:
 
A couple of things to think about...

If you are getting any part of your barrel to hot to comfortably hold your hand on, IMO you are getting your rifle too hot. Exactly what equipment and procedure are you using to clean your barrel? What is the pull weight of your trigger? How tight are your action screws? What kind of dies are you using? Do you have any way to measure what we refer to as shoulder bump? What about a way to measure where your bullets are in relation to the rifling? What sort of rings and base(s) do you have? Are you able to keep the reticle perfectly still on target while squeezing the trigger? How did you work up your load?

That should keep you occupied for a while.:D
 
mdt700 said:
Forgive me, and be gentle.... This seems to be a site with folks who know a lot, and I don't, so I'm asking for your help....

I got my first ever bolt gun about 6 weeks ago, with the purpose of nothing but target shooting at a variety of distances, just because, well, it is fun. Rem 700 SPS, .243. Replaced the stock with a B&C varmint/tactical stock, has a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 scope on it, Harris bipod, added a tactical bolt.

First 200 or so rounds were factory ammo, but I quickly started reloading for it. I'm a bit more accurate with my handloads than factory, but not by much. Varget, 39 grns, Hornady 75 grn V-max BT bullets. I have about 300 or so rounds through it altogether.

I have times when I shoot 3-4 shots of about .3-.5 inches (100 yrds) then I have wildcat shots where a couple will stray to 1.5, sometimes even more. Inconsistent .3-1.75 groups is not good shooting, I know that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy with CONSISTENT .3-.7 inch or so groups. I'm not looking to be a competitor or spend a ton of $$.

What advice, other than routine practice, do you have in terms of technique, reloading, cleaning, equipment, etc?? Any advice is welcome, because right now although I'm having fun with it, I'm just tinkering and experimenting semi-blindly....

Thanks
Click to expand...

Welcome, you're in the right place.

I'll try with my perspective.......

Keep lots of notes, write down EVERYTHING and above all remain honest. KEEP those eyes wide open and "semi-blindly" will become a thing of the past.

I mean be HONEST with your results. It's too awful easy to fall (be sucked into) into the typical shooter's trap of making "wind calls" and "called misses" and "missed calls" and all sorts of other excuses..... shooters are by and large full of excuses, you will learn a lot of ways to justify poor results. DON'T DO IT!!! IMO this is the biggest difference between competition shooting and casual plinking. And for this reason, mainly, you get better answers here than elsewhere. There are quite a few folks here who've learned the hard way, and in some cases retained (or regained) their sense of honesty in the process.

No, competition does not get rid of the excuses! But only with actual repeatable results or luck (and luck is notoriously fickle :)) can one consistently win, so competition DOES produce results. I feel that at this point you're honestly assessing your findings (although "I'm a bit more accurate with my handloads" is pushing it :p :D) so keep it up!

It's a hard road, accuracy. And practicing your guts out will achieve NOTHING without the gun actually repeatably shoots. Most don't. And conversely I can set YOU down behind a good setup and YOU will shoot teeny little holes. I've done it with dozens of noobs. And all of them easily managed tiny groups.

I will give you one tip. No one else will agree with it.

You will get all sorts of magical fixes......... try them all I guess, it's all fun, albeit expensive. You'll learn that tools exist to measure things you'd never before considered. And that tools exist to "fix" the problems thereby isolated.....

BUT STAY HONEST!!!

Maintaining a clear perspective (and taking notes to refer to) will do more than any single other thing as far as allowing you to advance, to truly gain accuracy.


Now, the secret tip. :)

Make good brass.

That's the tip.

MAKE brass that truly fits the gun.

To do this you must find a way to set your headspace for a "jam-fit" when you initially fireform. This will be an monstrous pita BUT it should give you actual results unless your gun is helplessly skewed. I suggest you acquire a mandrel so that you can neck the virginal cases UP in size and then neck back down to form a headspacing step.

Now you resize only the neck and this will maintain the resultant close fit as best as possible.

NOW you stand a good chance of actually shooting better than those cheapo Federal factory loads.

The next step is to MAKE cases with tighter radial neck tolerance. This increases the pita factor exponentially.

You will learn heaps along the road. You will find out WHY rifles shoot/don't shoot.

That's where it gets really fun :):)

opinionsby,

al
 
Wow, now that's adivice! At least more than I can process or account for the next 2-3 times at the range or reloading bench. Thanks!

Barrel - When it gets too hot to hold in my hand for more than 2-3 seconds, I give it a rest break. But it takes soooo long to cool down, I get impatient.

Cleaning - I run both a bore snake and cleaning rod jag down the barrel 2x each, the last time with a clean patch, after I'm done shooting. At the range, I've tried running a jag 1-2x down the barrel after 20 or so rounds.

Dies - I use RSCB

What is shoulder bump??

Rings - Leoupold, low mounts, 2-piece.

Reticle hold on site - I am able to hold fairly well, I think it is my trigger control that needs more practice, which lead me to...

Excuses - I really have none. I have the trigger set at factory so far, which Rem. says is 3lbs. It breaks well, and folks at the gun shop have said so. When I pull it more abruptly, my shots tend to be off, when I pull very gradually, my shots are better. That's my discipline I need to work on, not the gun's fault. Remember, I've only got 300-350 rounds of experience with ANY bolt gun, this one or any other. I'd like to tinker with the trigger pull, but I don't think I have 3lbs mastered yet....

Wind flags - Never shot beyond 100 yrd so far, in more than 5-10mph wind, so I don't see that as a factor (right?).

I think my loads are decent, at least compared to factory, and then some. Even though I have an XL 650, I reload my rifle rounds very slowly and carefully compared to my handgun loads...

Anyway, thanks for the advice, and I welcome more if you have it to offer.
 
clean your barrel! It doesnt sound to me like your getting it very clean. I have never had a factory barrel that was clean with two or three patches. Get some good copper remover and a bronze brush and clean the heck out of it. Then try some different bullet powder combos. Get your bullet up in the lands if you can. Clean your barrel!! Good luck and enjoy yourself!! Lee
 
At the velocity that my ballistics program tells me you are somewhere near ( a little over 3,200 fps) your bullet is deflected .8", at 100 yards, by a 10 mph crosswind acting at 90 degrees to the line from rifle to target. Shoulder bump refers to the amount that the shoulder is set back when a case is sized. Are you using a solvent to clean with; if you are what is it? There is a lot of ground to cover here. I figure a few at a time is probably better.
 
mtd700,
A couple of things I would say. Just keep hanging around on this site and asking questions. In the shortrange Benchrest game, 100/200 yds, the best shooters in the world hang out here. What they don't know is not worth knowing. Second, start saving your extra dollars. Just by the fact that you are here asking questions means you are already on the slippery slope and have the FEVER. So hang on....you are in for the ride of your life.

Donald
 
The road to accuracy

It's a hard road, accuracy. And practicing your guts out will achieve NOTHING without the gun actually repeatably shoots. Most don't. And conversely I can set YOU down behind a good setup and YOU will shoot teeny little holes. I've done it with dozens of noobs. And all of them easily managed tiny groups.

This is very true. Longer ago than I care to remember me and my shooting buddies got the urge to shoot accurately. With very reasonably good factory rifles Sako, Rem, Win chambered for .222, .243, 22-250, .222 Mag etc. we shot many thousands of best of match bullets with rifles bedded free floated lightened trigger etc. but never got any reasonable accuracy. Indeed honest sub .750 aggregates were hard to get from a factory rifle. (Some newer rifles and chamberings can do it now eaziely like target Savage in 6BR and 6PPC and 22PPC in Sako.) The single most productive thing to do to a rifle we found out was to change the factory barrel out for a new barrel. Barrels from lesser known brands did very well in this regards but of course barrels from Hart Shilen etc did even better. This could change a Sako .222 Mag into at least a honest .400 rifle and 225-250 and .243 Win to a honest .500 rifle shooting 5, 5 shot group aggregates.

So what you are doing is the correct first step into the road of accuracy. There are many more steps and there is not any single right sequence to take them but it is very true as alinwa pointed out in the quote above that a newbie can shoot good groups from an accurate rifle (not talkin about aggregates) but even Tony Boyer can not shoot good groups from an unaccurate rifle.

To prove to my point I will attach the first ever group shot by my 22 year old daughter it is .207 and four shots well under .100. It is shot from a custom 6PPC at 200 yard targets but at 100 meters (110 yards.) Needless to say the condition was very good. This is much better group than even Tony Boyer could expect to shoot from any factory rifle.

The punchline: You will learn a lot and have lot of fun experimenting with handloads and all the trics and gadgets but will never shoot small aggregate unless with an accurate rifle. But then again "small" is of course a matter of definition.

Bergur
 

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mdt700 said:
Wind flags - Never shot beyond 100 yrd so far, in more than 5-10mph wind, so I don't see that as a factor (right?)..
Click to expand...

This is the main problem YOU have. The best way I have heard it put is " If you don't have windflags you are just plinking" [ ie wasting ammo ]. In Boyd's post the ballistic calculator says .8" at 100 yds. What normally happens is that you shoot a shot or 2 in a left wind and then the rest are shot in a right wind. .8 plus .8 equals 1.6" out of a rifle that might shoot 2's and .3's if you had windflags.

Even just 3 or 4 sticks with some surveyors ribbon on the top will get you started learning how to shoot smaller groups. If you don't want to mess with windflags then you are wasting your time and everybody else's on this site. For shooting consistent small groups you need good flags and a good rifle.

Secondly you should get at least a 32X scope so you can see each bullet hole on the target.
 
Also use

a good cleaning rod with a good rod guide. You will probably need to use a good bronze brush as well as patches. The bore snake keeps dragging crud from the last pass thru the barrel also, unless the bore snake is washed between each pass. Also the nylon/plastic pull in the bore snake can damage the bore at the crown if it is allowed to pull against the side of the bore. Max
 
Ok, so I'm on the right site - More good advice. I'll follow much of this in gradual steps. Thanks.

As I said before, I'm open to more suggestions, but I already have more you've given me than I can follow up on in the next several weeks (gotta work to pay the bills).

Thanks, really!

Hey, if it ain't fun, why do it!?! And I'm having fun, even if I can't quite shoot like a champ:)
 
I am just getting into benchrest shooting myself and in the past 3 years went from a remington xr-100 to a 204 and now have a savage lrpv 1:8 twist 6mm br in right bolt left port with a 36x weaver scope. Next year I plan on getting a richard franklin custom with a nightforce on top. Its addictive and expensive, but if u love it, u love it. Also. Make sureyou examine your brass. After my first loading experiment I found the same issue and it was because we weren't lubing the brass well enough, and the dies scarred the neck and actually smashed them a tiny bit.. but examine your loads before shooting.. maybe you'll see something that's not right.

And go to benchrest competitions.. they are a blast and its a lot of information and friendly people.

Kory
 
macflyboy said:
Don't ever buy a 6 ppc it will make all other short range firearms obsolete.

MAC:)
Click to expand...

Han'GONaminnit there dude.... "short range firearms?"

The 6PPC will push a 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip FASTER than a 22-250. And the 22-250 w/55gr NBt's has been the long-range varminting go-to for lo these what, 50yrs?

The 6PPC will push a 105gr VLD over the 2750fps node which means it will absolutely CREAM any .308 Winchester setup...

(It'll also push 68's into one round hole but hey.... )

The 6PPC furthermore ROCKS man!

:)

al
 
alinwa

Sorry didn't mean to push the panic button! But thanks for making my point more clear. A 6 PPC will spoil you rotten! At short to medium ranges!!!!!:)
 
Wind Flags info?

My first day on the site, looks like I'm in the right place,

My first question is about the use of wind flags, does any one have a link to good details on how to use them? I'll search the forums some to see

For example, had a tail wind of maybe ten to fifteen mph (little gusty as in on and off) last two times at the range, and was thinking "this shouldn't affect much??"

Probably wrong, but I have no idea how I would interpret what the flags were telling me?

Thanks
 
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