Experiment with ignition

M

MKnarr

Guest
I had a private discussion with what I believe to be a valued member of the forum about ignition on my Anschutz. To be up front, I am not a true benchrest shooter but compete very seriously at 22 Benchrest Silhouette at 65, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters. I have been on the top of my game for the last 3 years but as many of you know, you can never stop trying to improve your equipment or skills.

To that end, the discussion revolved around the firing pin spring and the lack of lubricant on the inside of the bolt. I realize this might be old hat to many of you but the experiment I performed may surprise you anyway.

The rifle I use is a 1970 Anschutz model 54 pillar bedded in a Don Stith stock. The trigger is set at 2 ounces and the scope is a Weaver T-36. When I bought the rifle I replaced the firing pin spring because I didn't know how old it was. I have also reworked the firing pin shape as shown below.

FPS3.jpg


Here is what I did. First of all, I cleaned the inside of the bolt, the springs (old and new), firing pin etc so that everything is now dry inside. I shot 14 groups at 50 yards with both the old and the new springs and chronographed everything. Ammo used was a good lot of Eley Team listed at 1064 FPS. In the past with the firing pin, new spring and inside of the bolt lightly greased I chronographed the ammo with a spread of 34 fps and a Standard deviation of 7.8 fps.

Here are today's results , same rifle, same barrel.

Old spring Velocity spread 36 FPS STD 8.6 Group Avg .219 STD .095
New spring Velocity spread 24 FPS STD 6.0 Group Avg .190 STD .081

I did the students T test on both the velocity and the group sizes and the velocity distribution is different to the 97.2% confidence level (significant) but the difference in group size is at the 67.4% confidence level which is not statistically significant. There was one velocity that was identified as a flyer by the chronograph in the new spring group.

Interesting observations:
Velocity is definitely tighter with the new spring with no lube.
The groups look tighter with the new spring but the confidence level is not high enough so I really can't say they are different.
The velocity with the new spring but lightly lubed was almost as wide as the old spring un-lubed.
The groups were all two shot groups and the ttest was a two tailed test.
The average group size may not be impressive to many of you but they are quite acceptable to me.
The old spring is just over 1/4 inch shorter than the new one. The spring material size looks to be about the same. Other than that I can't say and I have no idea how old the old spring is.
I could visually discern no difference in the pin strike between the two springs.
All groups measured with On Target.
The velocity for the old spring was 5 fps slower than the new spring for what that is worth.

If nothing else, it looks like replacing the spring was the right thing to do and as advised it looks like keeping things inside the bolt clean and dry helps as well. I realize that keeping everything inside un-lubed may go against the average guy's intuition but it is hard to argue with the data.

I hope some find this info useful.

Jim Brossman
 
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changing out spring

I had a private discussion with what I believe to be a valued member of the forum about ignition on my Anschutz. To be up front, I am not a true benchrest shooter but compete very seriously at 22 Benchrest Silhouette at 65, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters. I have been on the top of my game for the last 3 years but as many of you know, you can never stop trying to improve your equipment or skills.

To that end, the discussion revolved around the firing pin spring and the lack of lubricant on the inside of the bolt. I realize this might be old hat to many of you but the experiment I performed may surprise you anyway.

The rifle I use is a 1970 Anschutz model 54 pillar bedded in a Don Stith stock. The trigger is set at 2 ounces and the scope is a Weaver T-36. When I bought the rifle I replaced the firing pin spring because I didn't know how old it was. I have also reworked the firing pin shape as shown below.

FPS3.jpg


Here is what I did. First of all, I cleaned the inside of the bolt, the springs (old and new), firing pin etc so that everything is now dry inside. I shot 14 groups at 50 yards with both the old and the new springs and chronographed everything. Ammo used was a good lot of Eley Team listed at 1064 FPS. In the past with the firing pin, new spring and inside of the bolt lightly greased I chronographed the ammo with a spread of 34 fps and a Standard deviation of 7.8 fps.

Here are today's results , same rifle, same barrel.

Old spring Velocity spread 36 FPS STD 8.6 Group Avg .219 STD .095
New spring Velocity spread 24 FPS STD 6.0 Group Avg .190 STD .081

I did the students T test on both the velocity and the group sizes and the velocity distribution is different to the 97.2% confidence level (significant) but the difference in group size is at the 67.4% confidence level which is not statistically significant. There was one velocity that was identified as a flyer by the chronograph in the new spring group.

Interesting observations:
Velocity is definitely tighter with the new spring with no lube.
The groups look tighter with the new spring but the confidence level is not high enough so I really can't say they are different.
The velocity with the new spring but lightly lubed was almost as wide as the old spring un-lubed.
The groups were all two shot groups and the ttest was a two tailed test.
The average group size may not be impressive to many of you but they are quite acceptable to me.
The old spring is just over 1/4 inch shorter than the new one. The spring material size looks to be about the same. Other than that I can't say and I have no idea how old the old spring is.
I could visually discern no difference in the pin strike between the two springs.
All groups measured with On Target.
The velocity for the old spring was 5 fps slower than the new spring for what that is worth.

If nothing else, it looks like replacing the spring was the right thing to do and as advised it looks like keeping things inside the bolt clean and dry helps as well. I realize that keeping everything inside un-lubed may go against the average guy's intuition but it is hard to argue with the data.

I hope some find this info useful.

Jim Brossman
Jim: thanks for the post on changing out the spring on a 54 action. I have found the same thing that you experimented with to be true. Also keeping the firing pin clean has been a big help also. Who did your firing pin work? garrisone.
 
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Jim, did you do the t-test on the actual velocities of the two different pins? Or did you do it on the spreads? Not sure what you did there, but the correct method would be to compute the t-test from the velocities of each shot. This is probably what you did but I am not sure I'm following you.

Brent
 
Jim: One can take the improved ignition further by Polishing th einside of the bolt (it's mostly rough) and buff the spring as loaded. Group size is improved on my 54. Me thinks you need to further change the impact area on your modified pin to reduce sowem of the outside rim hit by moving it into the center by about .005 and widen the foot print a bit. The reason for the wider print is so to force better flame obturation or force a circular ignition of the priming mix.

Clarence
 
Jim, did you do the t-test on the actual velocities of the two different pins? Or did you do it on the spreads? Not sure what you did there, but the correct method would be to compute the t-test from the velocities of each shot. This is probably what you did but I am not sure I'm following you.

Brent

T Test was done on velocities and group sizes not spreads. And it was two different springs, not the pin. The pin used was the same in both tests.

Polishing the inside of the bolt (it's mostly rough) and buff the spring as loaded.

I'll have to look at that. I polished the daylights out of my 10/22 pin but never thought about the Anschutz.
 
MKnarr,
Did you replace both of the springs? In my experience the indictor spring adds too much ignition. I use a new firing pin spring and the original indicator spring. I also make sure that the spring is not dragging the sides of the bolt body. If I could not be sure I would polish the inside of the bolt. Your pin mods look good, as well as the strike.
Steve
 
No I only replaced the firing pin spring. I'm going to do the whole experiment over using a good lot of Eley Match at a future date and see what I can do successfully with indicator spring. I really didn't think about it but polishing the firing pin etc was mentioned on RFC.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Jim
 
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