Economical .223

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ssheets

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After reading the Kimber post I'm afraid to ask...although I've always thought of Kimber as a 1911 group.

I've been playing with reloads for my Remington 700bdl in 22-250 and my 1:9 twist AR15. Now that I'm getting more educated in the ballistics I'd like to get another rifle to play with .223 loads. I'm thinking a .223 bolt action with a 1:12 twist so I can shoot some 40 grain varmint bullets.

I can get a brand new Weatherby Vanguard sub MOA in stainless/Syn for a good price. What's the opinion on Weatherby?

If not Weatherby what else can I get for under $700? I like some of the Savage rifles with Accutriggers, but it looks like they're all 1:9 twist.

Any advice is much appreciated.
 
Nothland Shooter Supply and Sharp Shooter Supply both sell individual actions. You can attach a number of custom pre threaded barrels and use a Bell and Carlson stock to have a very accurate rifle. :cool:
 
ssheets said:
After reading the Kimber post I'm afraid to ask...although I've always thought of Kimber as a 1911 group.

I've been playing with reloads for my Remington 700bdl in 22-250 and my 1:9 twist AR15. Now that I'm getting more educated in the ballistics I'd like to get another rifle to play with .223 loads. I'm thinking a .223 bolt action with a 1:12 twist so I can shoot some 40 grain varmint bullets.

I can get a brand new Weatherby Vanguard sub MOA in stainless/Syn for a good price. What's the opinion on Weatherby?

If not Weatherby what else can I get for under $700? I like some of the Savage rifles with Accutriggers, but it looks like they're all 1:9 twist.

Any advice is much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Why would the savage have a problem with varmint bullets?
It's not as though you plan to shoot a 70 grain bullet in a 14 twist.

I think you'll find excess freebore more of a problem in commercial barrels then excess twist when you try to shoot a 40 gr bullet accurately.
 
I had a Savage 12 FVSS (1 in 9) and it shot best with the 40 grain V-Max. I shot a variety from there up to 69 grain Sierra MKs, but best groups were with the 40s...

Tom
 
Unless you are trying to make a .243 out of your .223 with the heavier bullets, you'd be better off to stick with a 1/12 or 1/14 twist for your 40-55 grains bullets.
If the Weatherby has a PROVEN track record of sub MOA then the freebore would be no problem if a Weatherby in .223 does indeed have the freebore like the magnums. I don't know but I kinda doubt that it would.
With your ceiling of $700, you're kinda limited to Savage, Tikka, or Stevens.
 
I completely shot out a Savage 223 barrel that was a 1-9 twist. It shot 40gr bullets just fine. I bought the barrel used from Northland and had it rechambered to 223AI. I have no clue how many rounds were through it before I got it, but I did at least 3000 and probably more like 4000. Many of these loads were fairly warm. Probably 1/3 were 40gr Vmax or NBT. I typically sighted 2" high @ 100 yards and held on fur out to 400 yards. BTW- the barrel was still shooting pretty well when I changed it, but the rifling was gone for about 4" past the chamber.

You can pick up either a Stevens 200 new for under $300 or a used Savage for a little more. What you change or add on after that is your choice. A Bell & Carlson or Stockade Stock with a Rifle Basix trigger is about all you need.
 
Dick's has rem 700 varmint rifles in ,223 on sale for $469. with rings and bases and a $20 scope. I saw a stevens 200 in .223 for $319 new, at a gun show.
 
The Weatherby Vanguard Sub MOA is guaranteed to shoot less than .99" @ 100yds. And is tested from the factory to do so. Mine went up a little in price as t is the stainless model. It MSRPs for over $1,000 and I can get it for $699.

That's interesting about the 1:9 twist and the 40 grain bullets. I've been told that a 36 grain varmint grenade will over spin and come apart at 1:9. I've loaded them for my 1:14 22-250, but not in my 1:9 AR15...maybe I should try some?
 
Weatherby Vanguards are made by Howa, so it may not be a problem of excessive free-bore. But heck, just buy a Howa and save a few $$$!
 
Wow, Howa makes a nice thumbhole in stainless...with the sale price of the Weatherby though the Howa is actually more money.

I'm rethinking my purchase though...for the price, I think I'll replace my Remington 700-BDL in 22-250 with the Weatherby also in 22-250. I can then sell my old Remington for scope money or a lower priced .223.

I think the 22-250 is a more enjoyable round than the .223 and reloading keeps the cost affordable. I already have 300rds of good (mostly new) brass.
 
Why replace your Remington with a Weatherby in the same cartridge that has, arguably, less accuracy potential?
 
My Remington is old. I bought it used a long time ago and I've never had much luck with it and accuracy. I haven't invested a lot of time with custom loads for it...while trying to set seating depth I'm not even sure if I can find the lands?

Too many choices...I wish I could buy one of each.
 
You know you can get it rebarreled for probably much less than you'd lose trading. For about $230 you can buy a new Shilen and I think Lester Bruno of www.brunoshooters.com will fit it for you for about the same money. You'd have a semi-custom rifle with a BR grade barrel on it.
 
I think you just gave me the answer I am looking for. I can get the Remington rebarreled, restocked and reconditioned for less money than the weatherby. The result will be the tack driving gun I'm looking for. I can then buy a Savage or Stevens .223 for shorter range varmint fun.

Thanks
 
sub-moa

After owning a sub-moa I'd never look at another one.

FYI - had a 300 wby mag made in Germany and it was 50fps faster than my 300 win mag. Both using the same bullet in factory ammo. Of course the wby ammo cost 3 times as much...

Savage would be my choice over a weatherby... otherwise I would buya $1000 Remington 'cause I'm a bit of a Remington guy - but after the problems I've heard of with the entry level Remingtons I would nver buy an SPS.
 
I've had four SPSs, two of which were instantly upgrading the barrels and stocks (purchased just for the action), the one I'm shooting wearing a factory barrel is a real shooter! I've recorded several groups in the .2s and .3s with it. Its a .204 Ruger and shoots as good as my VLS, but I definitely recommend upgrading the stocks. As I understand it, its the same barreled action with a different finish.
 
All good advice from these guys.

Forget the Weatherby. I expect a break down H&R to shoot under an inch.

Look, if you want to specify what bullet you shoot you need to start from the bullet and work outward. That means custom barrel.

If you want a real shooter, rebarrel the 700, heavy and twisted and reamed by a craftsmen, for what bullet length you prefer. Suggest Sierra, Berger, Speer, Lapua Hornady.

If you buy a factory or custom rifle, you have to work inward, and find out what bullet it likes, and not worry about bullet weight. Let rifle tell you what you will shoot. Ballistic tables are a waste of time.
 
I am a Cooper fan and have been spoiled by them, and no, I am not recommending you buy a Cooper in response to your question, rather I am leading you into a pleasant surprise I had recently.

A friend of mine asked for a recommendation for a cheap (inexpensive) truck rifle, he is not a rifle nut like most of us, his rifles are tools - nothing more and like most tools he expects them to work when he picks them up to use them. I took a look at what was available to fit his criteria and recommended a Stevens 200 in 223, $289.00 at the local sporting goods store. They are butt ugly, the trigger is only so-so, but it did tweak down to under 3 lbs. I mounted a 6X Weaver scope on it, non-adjustable so less things to go wrong when he uses it. I loaded up 50 rounds in military brass using Nosler ballistic-tips, and VV-133 powder and the first 3 shot group out of the rifle was 3/4" and proceeded to do a slight barrel break-in, shooting 3 shot groups and cleaning after each 3 shots, by the time I shot the fifth 3 shot group the groups were just slightly over 1/2inch.

Yes, it is still butt ugly, the action sets in the stock so that that is more gap (it came free-floated) on one side than the other. My first thought was to bed it so that the barrel is centered in the channel but then reality set in - why would I mess with a rifle that cost less than $300.00 that shoots like that. It killed a bunch of coyotes over the winter and never missed a beat.

As I said it was a pleasant surprise. I am not going to run out and buy one to replace one of my Coopers but it awoke me to the possibilities of an inexpensive rifle.

I notice you are wavering as to what your course of action will be and all I can say is do what makes you fill good, but if it is an inexpensive shooter you are looking for then take a look at the Stevens 200.
 
Drover I'm thinking about just that. I'll work on my 700 and put some money in to it. My AR15 is a pretty fun .223 to plink with, but a cheap .223 bolt would be a fun platform to enhance my reloading skills. So I'm back to were I started out at a few weeks ago. Buy a cheap .223 bolt action and enjoy it. I just came across some Berger match in 60 and 65 grain HPFB. I can get these for $150/1,000 ...the 65s will spin fine in the 1:9AR and the 60s will still work in the 22-250 and a 1:12 .223???? [edit] Stevens is 1:9 also

Great advice guys.
 
Let's back up to the bullet like suggested....or more practically, the rate of twist. What are the limitations of a 1:9 twist? I was told that you'll self destruct 36grain varmint grenades and that I'd need a 1:12 for the little puff balls. Conversely, is 65 grain too heavy for my 1:14 22-250?

There sure are a lot of 1:9 .223s on the market, what is the ideal load for .223 in 1:9?

What is the ideal load for .223 in 1:12?

This info will help drive my decisions. One thing is certain, I'm going to invest some time and money in my 700 22-250. It deserves it.
 
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