You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
DPMS 308 LR; Anybody know the size "S" bushing I'll need?
- Thread starter VaniB
- Start date
C
caroby
Guest
I want to order Lapua brass and shoot Sierra 175 Grain MK bullets out of my DPMS 308. Does anybody know what size Redding "S" bushings I'll need for my full length body die?
I want to order everything at the same time.
If ya got the seater, then seat a bullet and check diam... Go .003 or .004 under diam for the bushing...
I'd guess a loaded round on virgin Lap 308 brass would go .3320,.3330 maby .3340....
cale
Don't have dies, bullets, or Lapua case. I'm wanting to order it all.
I don't know about you guys, but don't you hate ordering everything WITHOUT the bushings. It require two seperate orders, and having to wait for one order to arrive before you can take the measurement of the bullet and the case, and place the second order.
It's like the flashlight without batteries, the Chocolate Sunday without a spoon, the car without gas, etc.
I'm sure somebody knows what Lapua and Sierra MK's measure. In a DPMS Semi-auto, it shouldn't be that critical either.
I don't know about you guys, but don't you hate ordering everything WITHOUT the bushings. It require two seperate orders, and having to wait for one order to arrive before you can take the measurement of the bullet and the case, and place the second order.
It's like the flashlight without batteries, the Chocolate Sunday without a spoon, the car without gas, etc.
I'm sure somebody knows what Lapua and Sierra MK's measure. In a DPMS Semi-auto, it shouldn't be that critical either.
Last edited:
C
caroby
Guest
In case anybody cares to know;
a Lapua 308 Winchester case will average a .336" bushing, maybe a .335"
I'd recommend getting all three............ .334 , .335 , .336 ... To play with the neck tension... Since this is a semi auto, I'd go heavy on the tension this may even require the .333....
good luck,
cale
M
McTank
Guest
I use that brass and bullet combo for my .308, my loaded rounds in virgin Lapua brass measure .3395" I use a .337 bushing. I'm using a heavy bolt gun that doesn't recoil too much, and concur with the other guys, that you'll need more tension than what I'm using. I also recommend you actually measure the brass you are going to use, Lapua's consistant, but you never know.
I was told by Robert Whitley on another sight, NOT to use "S" bushing dies for reliable 308 semi-auto operation. Though I've had no feeding problems in the 223 caliber using FL "S" bushing dies, I got the same advice by Chris at Redding not to do this with the larger 308 brass .
It seems that the slight wrinkle where the bushing doesn't size the neck down fully at the shoulder joint, can cause feeding problems.
It seems that the slight wrinkle where the bushing doesn't size the neck down fully at the shoulder joint, can cause feeding problems.
Personally, I would not use Lapua brass in my DPMS LR308. Like most semiauto 308s it really beats up the brass. I have talked to others who have found the same. I use Lake City brass for both my M1A and my DPMS LR308. I can't see spending the extra money for Lapua brass that is going to get chewed up like that. I save my Lapua brass for my bolt guns. I use a .336 or .337 bushing and the expander. I use the expander as I do not waste my time neck turning for my semiauto 308s. With the .337 bushing the expander barely kisses the inside of the necks. (I want any brass variance on the out side of the neck not the inside for uniform neck tension).
JCummings,
Ok then....so evidently you are somebody else out there who does use FL "S" bushing dies for your 308 DPMS.
I'm stuck between the two camps: guys that use them for their semi-auto 308's..... and guys that say they can cause unreliable feeding because the dies don't fully resize the necks down at the shoulder joint.
What brand dies do you use? Have you reloaded and fired your Lapua reloads enough through your rifle so I can be assured of sufficient sizing related reliability with the FL "s"dies.?
Ok then....so evidently you are somebody else out there who does use FL "S" bushing dies for your 308 DPMS.
I'm stuck between the two camps: guys that use them for their semi-auto 308's..... and guys that say they can cause unreliable feeding because the dies don't fully resize the necks down at the shoulder joint.
What brand dies do you use? Have you reloaded and fired your Lapua reloads enough through your rifle so I can be assured of sufficient sizing related reliability with the FL "s"dies.?
VaniB:
As I mentioned I do not use Lapua brass in my LR308. I use Lake City. In my M1A and LR308 I use a small base body die then a neck bushing die.
I personally have not had any problem with using brass sizedthis way in either my LR308 or my M1A. I can understand what other are telling you about a potential problem , but I have not seen it. Also, ask them if they have had any prblem with using a type S FL bushing die in their AR 15s. I haven't and I know A LOT of others who shoot an AR15 across the course like I do every weekend who use the type S FL bushing dies to size their 223 brass. Why would the 308 be so different? What kind of problem have they had?
As I mentioned I do not use Lapua brass in my LR308. I use Lake City. In my M1A and LR308 I use a small base body die then a neck bushing die.
I personally have not had any problem with using brass sizedthis way in either my LR308 or my M1A. I can understand what other are telling you about a potential problem , but I have not seen it. Also, ask them if they have had any prblem with using a type S FL bushing die in their AR 15s. I haven't and I know A LOT of others who shoot an AR15 across the course like I do every weekend who use the type S FL bushing dies to size their 223 brass. Why would the 308 be so different? What kind of problem have they had?
JCummings,
I don't know what kind of problems they've had. They simply say "feeding reliability". Maybe it varies from brass case to case, rifle to rifle, load to load, and it's very broad brush advice to have made on their part.
That's why I'm trying to find out about s FL dies and DPMS 308 rifles in particular. BUT, The fact that you use a small base die throws a wild-card into the mix. If you are doing that step first, then that is sizing the whole case and the shoulder back some. That in itself is good insurance, and has less bearing on whether you use an S bushing die or not.
Proof's in the pudding; What the best accuracy you can get in your DPMS? I'm looking for 5 shot 1/2" to maybe no larger then 3/4" groups if possible, and I'm willing to buy the tools, and the dies necessary. I'm no stranger to spending an hour to reload less then a handful of rounds that can deliver.
I don't know what kind of problems they've had. They simply say "feeding reliability". Maybe it varies from brass case to case, rifle to rifle, load to load, and it's very broad brush advice to have made on their part.
That's why I'm trying to find out about s FL dies and DPMS 308 rifles in particular. BUT, The fact that you use a small base die throws a wild-card into the mix. If you are doing that step first, then that is sizing the whole case and the shoulder back some. That in itself is good insurance, and has less bearing on whether you use an S bushing die or not.
Proof's in the pudding; What the best accuracy you can get in your DPMS? I'm looking for 5 shot 1/2" to maybe no larger then 3/4" groups if possible, and I'm willing to buy the tools, and the dies necessary. I'm no stranger to spending an hour to reload less then a handful of rounds that can deliver.
VaniB:
I had thought about the small base issue too.
Somehow I just can't accept that the tiny portion of unsized neck is causing a feeding problem. Insufficient sizing or shoulder bump back makes more sense. I can tell you that I have run type S FL sized brass through my LR308 without problem. This was brass I had sized and loaded for my bolt gun before I bought the LR308. The one problem I can confirm is that the LR308 magazines are short. They will not work with cartridges over 2.800 inches. I fact I would suggest keeping cartridges to 2.795 of less.
I went to small base dies because I believe they are a good idea for the M1A and probably wise for any semiauto 308. You can get a smal base type S FL die from Redding. I bet it would work great.
I had thought about the small base issue too.
Somehow I just can't accept that the tiny portion of unsized neck is causing a feeding problem. Insufficient sizing or shoulder bump back makes more sense. I can tell you that I have run type S FL sized brass through my LR308 without problem. This was brass I had sized and loaded for my bolt gun before I bought the LR308. The one problem I can confirm is that the LR308 magazines are short. They will not work with cartridges over 2.800 inches. I fact I would suggest keeping cartridges to 2.795 of less.
I went to small base dies because I believe they are a good idea for the M1A and probably wise for any semiauto 308. You can get a smal base type S FL die from Redding. I bet it would work great.
JC,
Think I'll try the Bushing die after all.
The reason I will buy Lapua, is because it will cost me a bit less then twice as much as the domestic Remington brass, but end up costing me the same or less because I don't have to sort out half of it to the side as junk.....as I would have to do with domestic brass.
I had found that roughly half of Remington 223 brass is not concentric enough for target handloads. I assume the 308 Remington stuff will be just as poor as the 223 cases. So what's the difference if I buy 200 cases of Remington brass to get 100 good cases, or, I buy 100 good Lapua cases at about the same price? Might as well buy the good stuff and save me some aggrivation at the reloading bench.
Never mind that it's getting real hard to find almost any brand now with hunting season coming around!!...or is it Obama season causing a shortage?
Thanks for the info. The accuracy report is encouraging.
Think I'll try the Bushing die after all.
The reason I will buy Lapua, is because it will cost me a bit less then twice as much as the domestic Remington brass, but end up costing me the same or less because I don't have to sort out half of it to the side as junk.....as I would have to do with domestic brass.
I had found that roughly half of Remington 223 brass is not concentric enough for target handloads. I assume the 308 Remington stuff will be just as poor as the 223 cases. So what's the difference if I buy 200 cases of Remington brass to get 100 good cases, or, I buy 100 good Lapua cases at about the same price? Might as well buy the good stuff and save me some aggrivation at the reloading bench.
Never mind that it's getting real hard to find almost any brand now with hunting season coming around!!...or is it Obama season causing a shortage?
Thanks for the info. The accuracy report is encouraging.
VaniB.
I understand the value of good Lapua brass. For my 308 bolt guns I use either Lapua or Winchester. benchrest competition guns get nothing but Lapua.
I buy once fired Lake City buy the 1000s to use in my M1A for XTC shooting.
Since I have it and it's much cheaper I use that in the LR308. Bth the M1a and the LR308 beat up the brass badly. It is not recommended to load the M1A brass more than 4 times because of this. I have not determined how long the LR308 brass will go but it sure gets beat up by my rifle.
Come out looking worse than the brass from my M1A.
I haven't yet figured out where all the dents on the LR308 fired brass are coming from.
I plan the trim the ejector spring and see it that decreases the beating.
As it is the brass come out with two very deep gouges in the neck of the case. I think the brass is spinning around backwards and hitting the side of the rifle on the way out.
Good luck with your project.
I really don't believe the bushing die will cause any problem.
I understand the value of good Lapua brass. For my 308 bolt guns I use either Lapua or Winchester. benchrest competition guns get nothing but Lapua.
I buy once fired Lake City buy the 1000s to use in my M1A for XTC shooting.
Since I have it and it's much cheaper I use that in the LR308. Bth the M1a and the LR308 beat up the brass badly. It is not recommended to load the M1A brass more than 4 times because of this. I have not determined how long the LR308 brass will go but it sure gets beat up by my rifle.
Come out looking worse than the brass from my M1A.
I haven't yet figured out where all the dents on the LR308 fired brass are coming from.
I plan the trim the ejector spring and see it that decreases the beating.
As it is the brass come out with two very deep gouges in the neck of the case. I think the brass is spinning around backwards and hitting the side of the rifle on the way out.
Good luck with your project.
I really don't believe the bushing die will cause any problem.