doughnuts anybody?????

T

tillroot1

Member
surely this has been smothered before, but I am wondering about reaming inside necks on my 6.5, what is the process? what is the best tool? where do I sign up? I have the dreaded doughnuts in my Lapua brass and the bottom of the bearing surface of my bullets is seating into it on some cases.
Thanks, Ron Tilley
 
tillroot1 said:
surely this has been smothered before, but I am wondering about reaming inside necks on my 6.5, what is the process? what is the best tool? where do I sign up? I have the dreaded doughnuts in my Lapua brass and the bottom of the bearing surface of my bullets is seating into it on some cases.
Thanks, Ron Tilley
Click to expand...

I use this one from L E Wilson on 3 calibers....... it's rougher than a cob compared to outside turning but it works and these are available in any diameter if the proprietary size doesn't work.

I drive my cases.

al
 
I keep chucking reamers +.0005"& .001" over bullet diameters for each caliber. Run them in a fired case and your good to go.

Dave
 
K & M Carbide 4 Flute Neck Turning Pilots

I developed some dreaded doughnuts in some 22 Dasher cases and used a 22 cal. carbide neck turning pilot to ream them out. At first I had to get the hang of not running the expandiron too far in the neck letting the fluted cutting pilot completely miss the doughnut. If you plan to ream out a doughnut you only want to just begin to insert the expandiron in the neck and leave the doughnut area not expanded so the pilot will cut it I think I said that right.

Rodney
 
Don Nielson said:
PROPERLY turned necks will not have a donut. Don
Click to expand...

maybe I need a lesson! I got um. Its only on the .260 improved, and only with the .243 Lapua brass. I have had no problems other than this.

Don, do you have a suggestion? can you tell me what I may be doing wrong? I run the cutter down till it just starts to cut the shoulder.
Thanks, Ron Tilley
 
Last edited:
alinwa said:
Don,

True unless you shove the shoulders back.

BTW, do you do custom cutter angle grinds for the Pumpkin?





Ron,

Here's a linky to another recent thread w/pics.

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57651&highlight=alinwa+neckturning


hth


al
Click to expand...

Al, I read your post on another thread on doughnuts, my problem is not from setting the neck back too far, I measure my fired cases and set the shoulder back 1 1/2 thou. I do not think the doughnuts would come from that would it? Thanks, Ron
 
tillroot1 said:
Al, I read your post on another thread on doughnuts, my problem is not from setting the neck back too far, I measure my fired cases and set the shoulder back 1 1/2 thou. I do not think the doughnuts would come from that would it? Thanks, Ron
Click to expand...

Probably not, I'm guessing that the problem comes from not turning deeply enough into the shoulder. Look closely at the picture of the sectioned case to see that you must turn deeply enough to make up for the shoulder brass thickness.

al
 
Ron:

Necking up the 243 case is where the problems start. The lower portion of the new neck/shoulder junction is thicker than the rest of the neck..since the lower portion was originally the upper part of the shoulder when the cases were 243's.

One way around this is to push the shoulders back .020-.025, neck turn to the 'pushed back' neck/shoulder junction, and fireform with a hard jam and some light lube like 3-in-1 oil on the cases. This should drastically reduce if not eliminate the donuts. Like Dave said, a chucking reamer will easily take care of any small dunkers that need attention if the 20 degree shoulder wants to flow a bit.

I use a shellholder faced off .020-.025 to do the setback. -Al
 
When you are necking up to a larger caliber, you can also neck up one caliber (usually about .020) larger than your desired size. Neck turn at that larger caliber (turn necks about 0003 to .0004 thinner at the next larger size) about .001 into the shoulder. Now you can neck down to your desired caliber enough to leave a slight false shoulder for fire forming. This will prevent the doughnut formation just about every time.

John
 
Ron,

Al's point is a good one.

Do me this favor. Take a piece of paper and draw a cutaway cartridge case. A .243 case......Draw the body VERY thick, the shoulder KINDA' thick and the neck THIN.


Now draw the new, larger, .260 neck and see how the KINDA' thick shoulder brass has folded up into the new neck. In your case the fix is wicked easy because you're probably 'spandering up on a mandrel. BECAUSE of this, you can turn the brass off the outside, remembering to cut deeply into the neck/shoulder junction to eliminate the donut. Set up to cut this thick knot off FIRST all by itself..... once the cutter starts to bite at the casemouth you're ready to go. It'll probably take 2 passes just to clean up the N/S junction before you start your actual neck turning.

If you blow out your necks like I do on a ton of mine, the thick stuff is left inside. I ream a pile of my cases.

Keep the progress coming, it's worth it in the end. THIS is why I value my immaculately prep'd cases and why I require that cases last forever. I gotta' grin at these high and mighty PPC guys who crow about "throwing the cases away after every Grand"..... PPC's is EASY :D like candy from a baby.


But, you can make other cases to be even BETTER than the average PPC case........ my 30X47L cases are a case in point. They're AWESOME!!


al
 
Doughnuts

Ron
Have you tried using 308 brass?
I found it easier to make 6.5 [Noble and Creedmore] with 308 instead of 243.
No doughnuts. And it is cheaper.
 
I think the culprit here is the shoulder/neck junction. it is so sharp of a junction that it is kinked, and hard to iron out. I think that I have a handle on it now, I just got done prepping 100 rounds of new brass and it seems to be worked out. Thanks, Ron Tilley
 
I got tired of making 260 brass out of 243 so I bought some Nosler. It worked with the first loading but when I went to seat bullets the second time, I could slip them in by hand and they bottomed out against a donut and I hadn't even turned them. Brass was too thin in the neck to hold a bullet and they came with a donut built in. I'm back to using Lapua.
 
slugger said:
I got tired of making 260 brass out of 243 so I bought some Nosler. It worked with the first loading but when I went to seat bullets the second time, I could slip them in by hand and they bottomed out against a donut and I hadn't even turned them. Brass was too thin in the neck to hold a bullet and they came with a donut built in. I'm back to using Lapua.
Click to expand...


Slugger,

There are many ways to get a donut and pushing the shoulder back is one of them. Please make sure that you're nor over-sizing your shoulders as this will inevitably cause casehead separation over time.

al
 
I loaded them once as new brass without sizing them- just like Nosler suggested. I then PARTIAL full length resized them- my die didn't even touch my shoulder. The donuts were now obvious because the necks were so loose that I could seat bullets by hand.

The donuts were obviously there before but i didn't notice them because the brass had been sized by Nosler with a die that had a neck size halfway between 243 and 260! When I used the proper die- no cigar.


I didn't like the way they (Nosler) handled it so I don't do business with them anymore.
 
Ron I've got (two?) of your pictures here, i'll try to post the links.

They came through kinda' funky-sidewise and one of them looks like a repeat??

I rotated the one.......

we'll see.

al
 

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slugger said:
I loaded them once as new brass without sizing them- just like Nosler suggested. I then PARTIAL full length resized them- my die didn't even touch my shoulder. The donuts were now obvious because the necks were so loose that I could seat bullets by hand.

The donuts were obviously there before but i didn't notice them because the brass had been sized by Nosler with a die that had a neck size halfway between 243 and 260! When I used the proper die- no cigar.


I didn't like the way they (Nosler) handled it so I don't do business with them anymore.
Click to expand...

Sounds like maybe they were resizing necks from one size to another?? Maybe they made their .260 from .243?? Seems weird that anyone would sell brass with donuts but if they DID just use a mandrel to upsize .243 and then trimmed it to length then they would probably have made donuts by pulling shoulder brass into the necks....

al
 
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