Do I need a new barrel ?

M

matchman

New member
I know this is hard to answer but......
I purchased a used LV rig:
Nieska J action 6ppc . Weaver 36x
Everything looks good but I cannot get 2 shots to even touch 90% of the time.
(I have shot better with factory rifles) , I have tried different powders and loads to no avail. I tried the scope on a 22lr bench rifle and its fine.
I live near Kelbys. Im thinking about having them re-barrel it..........
Or Better to have them look it over????? Or look something different.
The party I purchased it from claimed they were successful with the rifle and barrel.
The expense of this sport is really getting me down.
 
I know i need a new barrel, i had mine boerscoped today and at @1600 round the first inch of the throat is all fire cracked. it still shoots mid .200-.400 at 100yrds even shot a .500 at 200 this morning. but its no longer competitive..
matchman i have been in your boat, with a brand new LV rig and a know good one.. if you are near kelbys you could have them check it out for you,im sure they will steer you in
the right direction and get you shooting,also you are right there at the chippewa rifle range,they have a club BR match allmost every weekend and there are several top guys there who could get you shooting( great people at the chippewa range).
dont let it get you down, talk to kelby and see if they can get it shooting for you.
i know its rough, i have done the same thing,wanted to start shooting some benchrest and spent my money on a state of the art shiney new BR rig and could not get it to shoot and spent three years trying to get one that would shoot,then got pissed off anf just gave up. Dont do that..talk to kelbys they will help you.
 
:D
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"I live near Kelbys.

Im thinking about having them re-barrel it..........


Or Better to have them look it over????? "


#2

One of the very best ideas that you have .
Consider yourself lucky that they are close by.

Then you will not be playing "mind games" with yourself.


Of course this would be a great time to get a spare barrel !!



Glenn;)
 
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Ideas:

What was the round count supposed to be?
Did the party that you bought it from tell you what load shot so well in it?
Did/can get a dummy round with it?
Dies that are already set up?
Are they local...can you get them to help you out?
Know anyone with a bore scope?
Kelbly's would be a great resource as would the Chippewa folks.

Barrels are expendable and have to be put into the budget, but it's worth a bit of work to eliminate other possible issues. You don't want to just replace a barrel that looks OK and use up a new barrel finding out something else is wrong.
 
If it is shooting that bad more than likely you have something loose. Check all the screws on mounts, bases, ect. Make sure the barrel is tight, if all these checkout OK then swap the scope. If you still have the problem the glue in is probably coming loose, the barrel would have to be toast to shoot that bad. Most of the time you consider the barrel as wornout on a used gun but nowhere near as bad as this.
 
Thanks Guys,
I did remove the barrel (with correct tools) I re-torqued it at 50 ft lbs. I did this to ream out the neck to .269 from .262. (set up in a lathe, Only odd thing was my New P&G reamer never even touched the sides of the existing chamber only the neck)
I had the barreled action come out of the glue in during re-installing the barrel. (It was soft and gummy) I removed most of the bedding but left enough at the top of the stock and pads at the Stock screws so I did not change the position of the action in the stock. I used JB weld to re-glue in.
" I did all of this before I ever shot it."
I faild to get any load info from the previous owner. (ya I know)
I'll get it out to Kelbys and see what they say.
Any recomendation on a Barrel ? Im considering Kreiger . Im shooting 65gr Barts Boattails
I see Kregier list bore dia of .2360 or .2370 ? Any ideas ?
Also twist ? I assume a 1:14 or 1:14.5 ?
Thanks
Adam
 
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Holly Bejesus matchman....you did some ah.. tampering....there..
better get it to kelby's and have em rebed it, try a new barrel on it.
i really dont know what barrel to go with but im thinking .2370 13.5..or 14 twist
I allways torque barrels to 100 or even 150 FT LBS. dont know if thats right or not but 50 is a bit light in my mind.
 
If you got to Kelbly's to have them rebarrel, check to see what they have in stock. Failing that, go to someone that stocks them...you aren't going to want to suffer the downtime to get a new barrel from an order....you do that stuff ahead of time and keep a couple in the pipeline.

As to the bullets, with the boat tails, a short free bore is often required. What freebore is your reamer?
 
Get over to Kelblys....get a Krieger 13.5 twist bbl....((or a gain twist that ends up around that))the new generation of BT's need more twist than the old type FB bullets that we hav shot for decades.....and .237 bore ....Roger
 
My reamer free bore is .035 , Dave Kiff recommended it as a versital dimetion and Bart's thought is was a good choise to.
As far as having it re-bedded why ? I just re-glued it in.... Im no expert but I have had good luck re-doing M1A'a this way (marine tex: bedded not glued). (leaving just enough old bedding not needeing to get the barrel and stock re-postioned, most of the old soft bedding is usually at the bottom anyways. Due to solvents)
 
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Matchman,

I doubt if your bedding job is bad since you have some experience. However, what has me concerned is running the new reamer in to make the neck bigger. Depending on what the old chamber was, you could have cut a double angle throat or the reamer reached in just enough to cut a groove in the old one or, without the whole reamer being supported, it could have cut a crooked neck and possible cut the throat crooked. 50ft lbs is not enough. Minimum of 60ft lbs and a max around 120ft lbs is what you need on the torque for the barrel, I lean to the 100ft lb area. I'd go over to Kelbly's and have them borescope that chamber/barrel. If you do this lathe work yourself, then set that barrel back and cut a complete chamber, I'm not talking about cutting the whole chamber off and doing a new tenon and all, just set back until the reamer can do it's job.

Hovis
 
HovisKM,
Good advise , Im a hobbie machinist i grasp the concepts of doing the Job , I just need a good rifle as a base line to compare any changes I make and to see what a "correct job looks like". This is why Im leaning towards Having Kelbys do the job. I will have the old barrel to dissect and completely re-chamber .
Adam
 
oh i can't resist this one
In my defense i only tampered with my rifles after they did not shoot.


hope ya get it worked out & shooting, im down right now , got two barrels ready to send off to be chambered, i will be back at it next year.
 
Try a different bullet, a flat based bullet. Some barrels just do not like some bullets. This is why I always keep at least two different bullets around.
 
mark-x said:
oh i can't resist this one
In my defense i only tampered with my rifles after they did not shoot.


hope ya get it worked out & shooting, im down right now , got two barrels ready to send off to be chambered, i will be back at it next year.
Click to expand...

I can admit it ...It was before I shot it.
Im tempted to try my hand at doing a barrel job as Bruno has a Shilen Barrel for $230 something. I have the 11" Rockwell late, finish reamer, Test indicator ect. Just have not made spiders yet.
Trying a different bullet is a good idea.
 
matchman said:
HovisKM,
Good advise , Im a hobbie machinist i grasp the concepts of doing the Job , I just need a good rifle as a base line to compare any changes I make and to see what a "correct job looks like". This is why Im leaning towards Having Kelbys do the job. I will have the old barrel to dissect and completely re-chamber .
Adam
Click to expand...

If you live close to Kelblys what are you waiting for? Those guys like Greg Walley or George Sr have more experience in barrel troubleshooting than this whole forum of "experts". Get them to borescope that barrel, there is a better than 90% chance they can tell by just sticking a bore scope in it.

If it checks out visually, get some pointers about barrel tuning. There is much more to the process of efficient barrel tuning than you would ever imagine. Simply seating a bullet to a "certain" rifling mark and clicking up and down a few clicks on the measure, or even trying 3-4 different bullets will not get you even close to what a good barrel can do.

I'll match any bet you want to make that 70% of the guns shot at any benchrest match are not tuned well enough to shoot ANY 0.2" groups in the best of conditions. Then you add the wind factor, and whammo, you don't stand a chance. If that sucker will not put the first 2 shots in the same hole in good conditions and will not put the first 3 in the same 0.2" hole 4 out of 5 times in decent conditions you are not tuned!!

If they reccomend a new barrel get them to do the first one. Learn how to tune it. Then you will know what a good shooting benchrest rifle is capable of. THEN, if you want to do your own barrels, have at it. Just as there was nothing more exciting than taking your first game with your own handloads, there is one better and that is winning your first match with a barrel you fitted!
 
well....I went to Kelby's. I thought I would post what I was told and what I told Greg.
Greg evidently is involved hands on building rifles.
My story: Purchased a Used LV BR rifle w/scope, (I failed to get any info on the loads it likes, only because I thought it would not be pertant due to what I had in mind).
I wanted a .269 neck rifle(But this one was .262) being that I was purchasing new brass and did not want to pitch my new brass when I change the barrel to .269 I reamed the old barrel.
I was purchasing a reamer any how and being that I have a Lathe I indicated the barrel and reamed it out. It only cut the neck and the lead, did not touch the chamber. Upon re-installing the barrel I had the action glue in come out (Yes I was using Sinclair purchased tools). I re do the glue in. (not changing the action/stock relationship)
This rifle will shot 1 in + groups at 100yd. I Using Barts 65gr BT, 205M, H322 or N133. .001 neck clearance.I changed power and varyed loads to no avail.
I tried the scope on a .22lr bench gun (seamed ok).
What I was told:
#1 make sure everything is tight , scope bases & mounts& lock rings
#2 Try different scope
#3 He lookd at 2 fired cases (fired 2-3 times no sizing,) I was shown how a bullet did not easly fit in the neck, this was bad, was told I should have .002 to .003 neck clearance. The sizing bushing should control neck tension.
(I run .001 and have never had any chambering issues or extraction issues, this rifle or any other) He did not have the same bullet I use but the tension I have I can seat the bullet with my fingers with a un-sized case. I think this idea is out in left field. Someone correct me if im wrong please.
Due to the large group size he was convinced its not a barrel issue, I asked for him to look at it ....I got the eye ball its clean and looks ok.
Greg was polite and burning his break time with me.(I offered to pay him)
Basicly there was not much intrest in taking the rifle in to figure it out or replace the barrel, at least not at this time maby end of season. I got the lecture about "people" building rifles that should not be doing that and selling problem children. I cannot blame him as "I know" that finding man made problems on anything is some of the worst jobs.
I thought my barrel would at least get a look with the bore scope . I feal I wasted 2hr of driving. I hope I can eat those words after I try a different scope, and I will also try a different bullet.
Adam
 
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You must have gone to the wrong Kelblys. I've spent literally months there with those folks if I add up all the Super Shoots (10 days each), several Nationals (IBS and NBRSA) and a few Eastern Regionals and what you wrote does not jive with how they do business.

I'll not directly call you a liar but I do have my suspicions as to what you wrote versus what actually transpired!!!!
 
Like I said, He was nice , spent "his" time with me to try to help.
Im offering a bag of worms for him to make money on. I can't blame them. Im not mad.
Maby he is dead on with the scope thing and was doing me a favor to try that first. Im not trying to bad mouth Kelby's at all.
Adam
 
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