different neck tensions........

S

scott mims

Guest
has anyone really proved to themselves that they can tell a difference between different neck tensions (every load is with VV133). ive always used a 0.262 chamber and use to neck turn my brass so a loaded round would measure 0.2610 and used a 0.259 bushing. then i started neck turning my brass so a loaded round would measure 0.260 and used a 0.258 bushing......... then a 0.257 bushing. after all of that i really couldnt tell much difference in anything. so this year im going to start out with everything the same but im going to use a 0.256 bushing. ive read on here that people have said VV133 likes tight necks. so do you think a 0.256 bushing for a loaded round that measures 0.260 for a 0.262 chamber is ok? (all with Barts Ultras 68gr.

i also have bought a 13.5 twist barrel that i will get my smith to chamber for me later. bought some of Barts boattails 68gr and got some LT32 powder.......... what size bushing are you using for boattails using LT32 or VV133?

any info would be helpful thanks in advanced.
 
slow down not so fast with all the info........ :) :) :)

any info would be nice. thanks
 
In the little, unscientific test that I did years ago I took the same load, and walked up from .001 neck tension through .003, at which point I concluded that with 133 neck tension was mostly about being over a minimum, with little advantage beyond that. I like to have at least .0025, and as long as I have that, and the seating feel is uniform within a set that I will be shooting at the same target, I think that I am good to go. At some point, all you are doing is using your bullet as an expander. None of this is scientific, all just opinion. On a related matter, one of the things that I like about Wilson bushings is that you can gain about .0005 by turning them so that they are numbers down. Of course I have seen carbide in .0005 increments, but that gets a little pricey.
 
This is not a very scientific test. Take it for what it's worth. I'm not sure what it means myself.
Using LT32 and N133 with Barts 68 bt. Both my rifles 262 necks did well with .257 and a .258 bushing loaded round measures .2605
I wondered about more neck tension went down to a .256 bushing same load went all to pieces big 1/2" groups. I've tried it a couple times.
Can't explain why don't know why or what it means other than both my rifles didn't like it and thats all that mattered. They both like the .257 bushing the best
 
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Another thing I thight as I did this, it probably wasn't a true test with the .256 bushing.
The jam length had been established with the .257 bushing and its tension. I did not re establish jam and work out of the lands from there to see what would happen.
It just wasnt worth the bullets and barrel to re test that far to me. The 257 bushing was doing well
 
My experience is with both 133 and 8208....

..... and I have seen some pretty significant differences in group sizes with neck tension.

I have noticed that 133 likes more neck tension than the 8208 that I shoot (usually when the weather isn't so cold here in Michigan or I'm in a hotter/dryer climate, I would rather shoot 8208). My not-so-scientific thoughts on this is that it appears that 133 has a less steep pressure curve than the 8208/322/LT-32 type powders; which seem to build pressure faster. When you shoot 133, it has somewhat of a push kind of recoil. The 8208-type powders have more of a "pop" when they go off. (I said it was "non-scientific", but that is what I have seen.)

I've also seen that 133 seems to like to be shot farther into the rifling than 8208 does. In light conditions I have "jumped" the bullet as much as .020 more than where I normally shoot 133. I know that 8208, 322, and LT-32 aren't the same powder; and each has a specific sweet spot where they like to be shot. But, in my experience, these three types of powders shoot better in basically the same kind of temperature/humidity ranges, while 133 seems to shoot better in cooler/wetter weather than 8208.

I've used .262 neck exclusively since 1996. Looking back, I would have liked to go thicker, especially when using 133, but that has ended up being what my system that has evolved; and I haven't committed to gong to the thicker necks - which would require a new reamer, seating die and bushing set. Not to mention, I would have to go through a new tuning regimen to see what changes with the environmental conditions. (Or maybe I'm just lazy.) Today, I cut necks to .0081 so that the loaded round comes out below .261, closer to .260. I use a .256 bushing for 133 and a .257 or .258 bushing for 8208. With the .258 bushing, you can almost pull the bullet out with your fingers alone. I have even shot light-tensioned 8208 loads with bullet seated out past the "jam" and allowed the rifling to seat the bullet.

The guys shooting the thicker .265 to .268 necks and astronomical amounts of 133 have had great success in all kinds of weather conditions. But, I can't get 30.5 grains into may cases and still have the bullet hold the same seating depth (the powder pushes the bullet back out with compressed loads). This is mostly because when I have cut the case necks as thin with my chamber dimensions, there isn't enough "meat" in the case necks as the .268 guys have to hold the bullet in with the compressed load. (Another aside, I have noticed that with shooting over 30 grains of 133 in a standard-sized PPC case, the powder seems to burn "cleaner" and there is less powder residue in the barrels; another reason I would have liked to go thicker on the case necks. Oh well.)

At have for years tuned my rifles at 200 yards because the differences seem to be more easily seen on the target than at 100. When I've shot the tighter "grip" with 133, it was quite easily seen in the repetitive group size; more threes than fives. The same with 8208 or 322 with the more loose neck tension. In fact, I have also seen that 133 shoots better with newer cases than the 8208 does. I will often shoot brass with 133 until it gets more worn, then I will shoot 8208 in those cases.

The one other thing that had become very easily seen in the 200-yard sessions is that groups will open up if one doesn't trim the cartridge length often. (At the Nationals I would trim cases after each firing.)

I guess when you have a boring life and spend a lot of time at the range (especially at 200 yards) trying minute changes in tuning variables, certain patterns start to emerge.
 
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