Different methods to harden/treat dies

C

Chris Harris

Member
There are various methods of treating one's full length sizing dies. I use the Newlon blank and have had the 12L-14 (Leadloy) heat treated. The result is a really great die but there are plenty other options that are being used for stainless and maybe 12L-14.

Has anyone had very good results with coatings such as TiN etc?

Chris
 
there is an electroless nickle process that has Teflon embedded in it, and goes on extremely accurately (.000050" if you want to, but .00015" is easier). You can actually plate something without ever regrinding the part (I've seen precision screw threads done). The finish is slightly (and I mean slight) pourus; thus retaining lube well. Would it work? I don't know, but the thought's been in my mind a couple times. The Ti coating is done often with resharpened high speed tooling, and dosn't seem to add much if any stock. Where you do it I can't say, but they do it all the time.
gary
 
Thanks, I will look into this. I understand that there are many treatments so I will do some more research. I am in no rush but I want to try something different to the 12L-14 and hardening process. I am off to the Shot Show this week so I will look around there as well.
 
I have sent 2 batches of dies to Tru-Tec for Melonite treating with excellent results. For traditional heattreating I recommend Fireball heat treating some where out East, they will take care of anyone doing gun work and they offer Cryo too. Most of the dies I've made have been heat treated and cryo'd at Fireball then Melonite treated at Tru-Tec. When it comes to F/L resize dies hard is worth more than all the polishing efforts you can do in one afternoon, there aint no brass stickin to these dies.
Joel Kendrick is the man to contact for Melonite and Fireball Heat Treating has a web sight.
Jay Cutright
 
Depending upon how hot your oven gets at home and where you place the item in it, you might be able to heat treat a 17-4 Die in your house oven on cleaning cycle. I bet you'd get 40-45rc out of it anyhow. No atmosphere required. No draw cycle.
 
I did not find anything interesting at the Shot Show but then I did not look around enough either. It seems Melonite is very popular from chatting to people on this forum. I also think I am going to buy a heat treatment oven and play around a little. Always nicer when one can do it yourself and get it right. Does anyone have ideas on what oven to get and what the process is? I have no idea.
 
I bought a heat treat oven cheap and sold it cheap after talking to the power company. If you find a gas fired on it may be cheaper. Unless you are going into the heat treat business, I think you will be well served to use an established company.
Butch
 
Butch Lambert said:
I bought a heat treat oven cheap and sold it cheap after talking to the power company. If you find a gas fired on it may be cheaper. Unless you are going into the heat treat business, I think you will be well served to use an established company.
Butch
Click to expand...
Was it some sort of a huge oven that required 3 Phase that wasn't available at your location, or did they say it was going to make your electric usage type change (very low power factor surcharge)?

I'm sure they use a lot of power to get up to temp, but, for occasional use, it's not a prohibitive expense here anyhow.

Our oven is 220, and probably takes 45 min to get up to 1600F. Maybe an hour for 1725. Once it's there, it cycles on and off. Our electric bill is already rather a lot so it is insignificant in the greater scheme of things here but I could not say what it really costs to run for a cycle. I know just shipping parts to a heat treat shop probably covers that cost for us. If it fits in our oven, we do it here.
 
What I've found is that Heat Treat shops have a Minimum requirement before you get per pound pricing. For Instance the one I deal with has a "small Batch" price. The small batch is anything in the same type of steel that you want treated to the same hardness. If it's under 25 pounds total, it is X amount. Over 25 pounds you get a better price per pound. It is way more efficient for me to do ten wrenches than to just do three of four at a time. Firing up your own oven for a die or two would be the same problem if you have to bring it up to temp, you might want quite a few dies in there.

Paul
 
My oven came out of a college shop. It was 220V and had an inside dimension of 24X24. I think that is very big for most any small shop, infact a large shop I worked in had a smaller one. It was kinda like my fancy Wilson Rockwell tester, I need to get shut of it also. It just ain't worth it for the few times that I need it.
Butch
 
Yea, that's a lot bigger than the one we have here. This one is about 8x6x16 if I had to guess. Maybe a little bigger. Ideal for our situation with virtually all small parts being done. The rule here is, if it fits, do it here, if it doesn't send it out. Well, anything that needs less than 1850F anyhow. Above that, it takes so long to come up to temp I simply don't do those parts here. Something like M2 that needs 2200F, forget it.

The next time I heat up the oven, I'll have to shut off some other things here and then check the usage on the power company website. From that, I can calculate a dollar figure for what it takes to run the oven each time. Our power company has a very cool website.
 
Chris, I would give Ralph a call. He has built many dies and tried different processes for hardening. He taught me everything I know about making dies and is very knowledgeable about it. I harden all my dies by wrapping them in a copy of Penthouse. Tim
 
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