Deuce vs. 223

T

tiny68

Member
I am wanting to set up one of my Savage rifles for my 10 yr old to shoot club matches at Denton next year. I am shooting a 6BR and a 30BR. He doesn't need to try and shoot a 30BR in free recoil. I am thinking about setting up a 1:14 twist 222 or 223 for 52 gr bullets. With the availability of Laupa brass for a 223, how much inherit accuracy does a 223 give up to a 222? I already have the dies and brass for a 223 so I am leaning that way. Never been around a 222. I only know it once ruled in BR world.

Thanks for your input, Tim
 
Tim, I have had several of each and cant really tell a diff in accuracy. The deuce has a better reputation but I have owned a 223 that shot as well as any rifle I have had. Lapua is making 222 brass again. I bought some a few months ago but took off my .222 barrel and havent got to play with it much.

Steve
 
i don't know. i do know i'm gonna build a 222...to go with the 6-7 223's i own.

if it was all about velocity i would give the nod to the 223......but i think there maybe a vast wealth of knowledge out there about what use to be...the 222...( my first centerfire rifle!)

mike in co
 
If the builds and components are of equal quality, I think that you couldn't tell them apart, except for the .223s higher velocity, but if you cut corners with either, it will show.
 
Why not a 220 beggs with a no turn neck? Get some 133 and custom 52gr bullets and have at it.
 
222 vs 223

Tim: I have, and use both/ both excellent rounds. If you have no interest in going beyond 200/250 yds., then in my opinion, the 222 Rem would be the first choice. Proven track record of accuracy (since 1950), no recoil, slightly less noise, very easy to load for, Lapua brass, extreme long barrel life, ( I have 1890 rds. thru one of my Hart barrels, and no sign of fire-cracking w/ my Hawkeye), etc. If you may want to go to further distance, then the 223 would take over as my first choice. With a fast twist, 1-8 and 80 gr. bullets, a proven performer out to approx. 600 yds. if not wanting to go that distance, then I believe a 1-9 twist is "ideal" for the 223: mine do an excellent job with all bullet weights 50 to 69 gr. Of course, you could do a switch-barrel and have both. Switch-barrels are kind of neat.
 
just a note..factory chamber on a premium bbl will provide factory results. you will need a custom reamer, or a body reamer with a custom throat to get the goods out of the 223....not sure on the 222.

most 223 chambers are compromise chambers for lots of bullets....you want a 50/55 gr throat.

mike in co
 
223 chamber(s)

mike: Yes to your custom reamer idea. I had Pacific cut a 223 reamer to my specs, .253" neck for Lapua brass, .072" throat and chamber oal of 1.770", sending Dave Kiff a "dummy round" with the 80 gr. Sierra MK seated with the full bullet dia. at the bottom of the case neck/ heel of the boatail in the shoulder area. Dave came up with the .072" throat, and it was a great choice. With it I'm able to easily seat to touch with the 55 V-Max ( lightest used), and the 80 gr. also to touch with the bullet seated as described. All in-between bullets can be seated to touch with maximum bullet/case neck contact. 3 chamberings have been cut with that reamer, and all turned out to be very high quality. Loaded round neck dia with Lapua is .250", so the .253" also was a good choice for a no-turn neck. And the chamber length of 1.770" eliminates the long "gap" in front of the case mouth as is so common with factory chambers. Over the past few years, have had so much success with my own reamers, that's the only type I'll use now.
 
I would go with the .223.
As I understand it, the main problem the .222 has competing with 6PPC is the wind sensitivity. The extra velocity of the .223 will help make up for that.
 
Tim,
In either case you need to go with a custom reamer. Pick which bullet you want your son to shoot and chamber the barrel for it. Don't fall for this "well you could go with a 1 in 9 and shoot 75's". That won't cut the mustard if you want him to have a chance. Heck, check out the rent a reamer deal, they might have just what you want. Or call the reamer mfgrs and see what they suggest. A stock chamber just won't get you there, 222 or 223.

Donald
 
Why not stick with a 6BR you have the dies etc... If you PM me I may have something you might be interested in.
 
.222 vs. .223___

I have 2 6PPC's and I LOVE 'em,but I'd like to try a custom .223 BR rifle.
Right now I'm having excellent results w/ a Savage LRPV,.223,1/9 using 69gn Sierra bullets---under .5" groups(5 shots) @ 200yds "in good conditions-not windy/switchy". I have to do MY part also. I don't know if I'd want a 14tw w/ light bullets or a 9tw w/ heavier bullets,but sure would be fun to try each. I'd shoot the Savage if it were not for the excessive weight even for HV.
This rifle has the Savage F-class stock,skim bedding,and action work by Sharp Shooters Supply,36x Leupold scope & am shooting over wind flags. Lapua match brass w/ turned necks. The load/rifle WILL shoot .5" or less @ 200yds PROVIDED I do the right thing. Yes,I have shot some .6's & even some 1.00+"
groups,but in GOOD conditions I've shot a .478",.441",.436",.294",AND a .259"(note these are 5 shot groups). I don't know how well .223's hold up in actual match conditions compared to 6PPC's. The Savage can be competitive in club matches,but too heavy for registered matches.
 
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Tiny, The 222 was king before the 222 mag or the 223 was invented. With proper care in selecting a reamer and the components, the 223 should at least equal the 222. A friend of mine just bought a Jarrett in 223 and it shoots like a house on fire. Do not let anyone blow smoke in your face about the increase distance of the 223. 3 or 4 hundred feet per second does not equal 3 or 4 hundred extra yards.

Don
 
Gunner223 said:
Tiny, The 222 was king before the 222 mag or the 223 was invented. With proper care in selecting a reamer and the components, the 223 should at least equal the 222. A friend of mine just bought a Jarrett in 223 and it shoots like a house on fire. Do not let anyone blow smoke in your face about the increase distance of the 223. 3 or 4 hundred feet per second does not equal 3 or 4 hundred extra yards.

Don
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no but an extra 300/400 pfs means less drift..a big positive of the 223 over the 222.

the increase in distance is with other twists and bullet weights.

try shooting a 222 at 600yds ?? it can be done with a 223....right twist lots of bullets.
i think the 222 has more data behind it, and the 223 is still learning despite its age.

mike in co
 
gpoldblue said:
I have 2 6PPC's and I LOVE 'em,but I'd like to try a custom .223 BR rifle.
Right now I'm having excellent results w/ a Savage LRPV,.223,1/9 using 69gn Sierra bullets---under .5" groups(5 shots) @ 200yds "in good conditions-not windy/switchy". I have to do MY part also. I don't know if I'd want a 14tw w/ light bullets or a 9tw w/ heavier bullets,but sure would be fun to try each. I'd shoot the Savage if it were not for the excessive weight even for HV.
Just food for thought......gpoldblue
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another gun that should be at a match some where...shoots .25 moa...

ok, i have been working part time on a 223 for 5 plus years. it took me the first four to get it to shoot under 0.25 moa, and the last to get it under .20 moa. and it is a custom chamber, 1/14 twist with a br scope.
i have shot a 200-20x at a local club match at 200yds.....but still not BR competitive rifle.

one or two groups at 0.5 at 200 does not make a .25 agg'ing rifle.

stick with 1/14, 50-55 gr bullets for br competition.

mike in co
 
Reamer

If I choose a 223, I will go with a tight chamber. I will have to think hard about turn versus a no-turn. I will either get a reamer from Dave or see what Shilen has available. This will be a pre-fit barrel. Anyone every make a 223 short (-0.100 or more)? Something more compariable to a 22PPC short? Just curious. I don't think I want to start him off on that path. Tim
 
Tim,
If you are thinking along those lines, then I would just go with a 222 using the good Lapua brass and a no turn neck. You could probably get by with about .002 total clearence. You should be able to run a bit higher pressures with the Lapua brass.

Donald
 
223 reamer

tiny68: I had Dave Kiff/Pacific do a 223 reamer for me. Just had my third chambering cut with it & it has turned out to be a "good one"/ a keeper. Chamber neck dia. is .253" for Lapua loaded, no turn neck dia. of .250". Sent him a dummy round with the 80 gr. Sierra MatchKing seated with the full .224" dia. seated to the bottom of the case neck, and it touches at that length. Am also able to seat the 55 gr. V-Max (the lightest/shortest bullet I use in the 1-9 and 1-8 twists) and the base of that bullet is also at the bottom of the case neck. All bullets "in-between" the 55 & 80 gr. can be seated to touch with at least 2/3 of the case neck making contact with the bullet(s). Throat depth/ freebore is .072", for my needs, ideal. I also specified max chamber length at 1.770", .010" longer than max case length. Brass is interchangable between all 3, only difference being that one barrel "likes" one powder combo load, while another prefers another. As good as the 222 is ( and I have several), it just cannot offer that many choices, especially at the 300+ yards distances.
 
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f d shuster said:
tiny68: I had Dave Kiff/Pacific do a 223 reamer for me. Just had my third chambering cut with it & it has turned out to be a "good one"/ a keeper. Chamber neck dia. is .253" for Lapua loaded, no turn neck dia. of .250". Sent him a dummy round with the 80 gr. Sierra MatchKing seated with the full .224" dia. seated to the bottom of the case neck, and it touches at that length. Am also able to seat the 55 gr. V-Max (the lightest/shortest bullet I use in the 1-9 and 1-8 twists) and the base of that bullet is also at the bottom of the case neck. All bullets "in-between" the 55 & 80 gr. can be seated to touch with at least 2/3 of the case neck making contact with the bullet(s). Throat depth/ freebore is .072", for my needs, ideal. I also specified max chamber length at 1.770", .010" longer than max case length. Brass is interchangable between all 3, only difference being that one barrel "likes" one powder combo load, while another prefers another. As good as the 222 is ( and I have several), it just cannot offer that many choices, especially at the 300+ yards distances.
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will it shoot sub .250 (better yet sub .200)at 100 with any combination in a 1/9,1/8 ??
this about a competitive gun not a flexible gun...
cause i agree 223 is very flexible......

i too have a 223 short throat reamer but with a 250 neck so i can cleanup the brass.

where does a match 52/53 bullet sit in your neck at the lands ??

mike in co
 
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