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gambler
Guest
just when shade tree engineering is on the verge of rolling out the 2 ounce-ish trigger, ain't that a kick....looks like it's replacement will be called the 455, sort of a switch barrel i thunk
The passing of the 452's
Very true but there has to be a ton of them, 452's, out there. Go over to Rimfire Central and the CZ section is almost always the most active of all the different gun forums over there. I actually just purchased a 452 American, not really having any set purpose other than how everyone has always said how great they are and with the sale that Cabela's had last month added it to my gun safe. Who knows may just collect dust in the safe, doubt it though for sure does feel good in the hands and very solid compared to a lot of these plastic 22's out there. With all the buzz of getting some factory class shooting going, and it happens, could be the gun for me if I decided to get into such.
Les
Very true but there has to be a ton of them, 452's, out there. Go over to Rimfire Central and the CZ section is almost always the most active of all the different gun forums over there. I actually just purchased a 452 American, not really having any set purpose other than how everyone has always said how great they are and with the sale that Cabela's had last month added it to my gun safe. Who knows may just collect dust in the safe, doubt it though for sure does feel good in the hands and very solid compared to a lot of these plastic 22's out there. With all the buzz of getting some factory class shooting going, and it happens, could be the gun for me if I decided to get into such.
Les
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gambler
Guest
452 getting dropped
Howdy!
I had a 452 trainer, with the well made sights, didn't care for the stock but that's another issue. Those are WELL made guns! I actually bought it for my son. Long story short, he and I traded, he got a KILLER Remington 513 matchmaster. I swapped the 452 and some cash for an Eric Johnson built BSA Martini #12. Thought I would eventually get my boy a 452 American and trade back for the Rem 513. Nope, when I offered to do that, pesky kid tells me he is keeping the 513! Maybe he HAS been listening all of these years!
Anyway, the changes they are making don't seem to be for the better. And I hate to say that. I have been reading the 452 threads on rimfirecentral for a long while. I have NOT read about some clamoring of the masses for a switch barrel system. I certainly have not read about people begging to get a cheap, potmetal Williams type sight instead of the finely made one that comes on some of the trainers.
What I have read about is that people get hooked on the quality, accuracy and reasonable price of the 452. Like one guy said, when he wants a different barrel, he grabs a different 452. People have bought multiple 452's in different configurations. They like the old world craftmanship, and the quality.
They will not be threading the reciever and barrel tenon any more. Apparently it looks more like a Ruger 10-22 set up. Faster, easier assembly with less training required to do it. Easier to install the barrel. That, plus the cheap looking sight, folks these are cost cutting measures pure and simple. Eliminate the more costly maching, and not to mention quality, and slightly raise the price. Gets more profit. Nothing wrong with that, profit is necessary. But if the quality/accuracy suffers, the sales won't be there, and neither will the profit.
When these little rifles started showing up, I figured the price would go up when folks started finding out about how good they were. Five years ago, the trainer could be had for a bit over $200. I saw one a couple of days ago for $379. I know the dollar is worth less now, but not that much less. CZ sales have skyrocketted. I am happy for them! Increased sales + increased prices is good for the company.
But I suspect that the cost cutting measures are going to yield less of a rifle, and the customers and the company will suffer for it. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Frankly, I hope I am proven wrong about it.
I hate to see quality get thrown away. Get the 452 while you can. It most likely is a future collectible!
Greg
Howdy!
I had a 452 trainer, with the well made sights, didn't care for the stock but that's another issue. Those are WELL made guns! I actually bought it for my son. Long story short, he and I traded, he got a KILLER Remington 513 matchmaster. I swapped the 452 and some cash for an Eric Johnson built BSA Martini #12. Thought I would eventually get my boy a 452 American and trade back for the Rem 513. Nope, when I offered to do that, pesky kid tells me he is keeping the 513! Maybe he HAS been listening all of these years!
Anyway, the changes they are making don't seem to be for the better. And I hate to say that. I have been reading the 452 threads on rimfirecentral for a long while. I have NOT read about some clamoring of the masses for a switch barrel system. I certainly have not read about people begging to get a cheap, potmetal Williams type sight instead of the finely made one that comes on some of the trainers.
What I have read about is that people get hooked on the quality, accuracy and reasonable price of the 452. Like one guy said, when he wants a different barrel, he grabs a different 452. People have bought multiple 452's in different configurations. They like the old world craftmanship, and the quality.
They will not be threading the reciever and barrel tenon any more. Apparently it looks more like a Ruger 10-22 set up. Faster, easier assembly with less training required to do it. Easier to install the barrel. That, plus the cheap looking sight, folks these are cost cutting measures pure and simple. Eliminate the more costly maching, and not to mention quality, and slightly raise the price. Gets more profit. Nothing wrong with that, profit is necessary. But if the quality/accuracy suffers, the sales won't be there, and neither will the profit.
When these little rifles started showing up, I figured the price would go up when folks started finding out about how good they were. Five years ago, the trainer could be had for a bit over $200. I saw one a couple of days ago for $379. I know the dollar is worth less now, but not that much less. CZ sales have skyrocketted. I am happy for them! Increased sales + increased prices is good for the company.
But I suspect that the cost cutting measures are going to yield less of a rifle, and the customers and the company will suffer for it. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Frankly, I hope I am proven wrong about it.
I hate to see quality get thrown away. Get the 452 while you can. It most likely is a future collectible!
Greg
Nope, i don't think i am wrong on this one!!
Just went to rimfirecentral.com and checked out a 455. AAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314845
Now the only locking lug is gonna be the bolt handle!!??
Less machining on the bolt handle, and less machining on the action!
Unthreaded barrel tenon, unthreaded action, no locking lugs other than the bolt handle, no locking lug recess in the action, and the price is a hair higher?
The way changes such as these traditionally work is that there is a brief period of emphasis on quality control at the beginning. Which begins to fall off, along with the quality.
Maybe it shoots great, with these new "quality" emphasized improvements.
I might have to pick up an old Brno so that I KNOW the quality is there.
I had a model 64 Anschutz once, without a threaded barrel/reciever, with the bolt handle for the locking lug, but IT WAS AN ANSCHUTZ!!!
I HATE to see quality get thrown away!
I will calm down now, sorry.
Greg
Just went to rimfirecentral.com and checked out a 455. AAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314845
Now the only locking lug is gonna be the bolt handle!!??
Less machining on the bolt handle, and less machining on the action!
Unthreaded barrel tenon, unthreaded action, no locking lugs other than the bolt handle, no locking lug recess in the action, and the price is a hair higher?
The way changes such as these traditionally work is that there is a brief period of emphasis on quality control at the beginning. Which begins to fall off, along with the quality.
Maybe it shoots great, with these new "quality" emphasized improvements.
I might have to pick up an old Brno so that I KNOW the quality is there.
I had a model 64 Anschutz once, without a threaded barrel/reciever, with the bolt handle for the locking lug, but IT WAS AN ANSCHUTZ!!!
I HATE to see quality get thrown away!
I will calm down now, sorry.
Greg
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gambler
Guest
so if we run out and buy up all we can at $400, will they sell in the classifieds a couple years from now...for $800 like the Suhls ? if you can find one
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gambler
Guest
that was one shot one kill, don't waste ammo
er maybe two
er maybe two
Collector's item!
Gambler, I can only guess that if the 455 shoots good, it's gonna sell.
If it shoots no better than a 452, the 452 very well may appreciate in value.
The folks with Brno's probably consider them to be higher quality than CZ's. I know from a discussion with one guy who is extremely prominent to Brno/CZ fans, he prefers the Brno.
Look at it like this, for the CZ fans, the changes being made will be every bit as abominable and talked about as the pre/post 64 debate amongst Winchester Model 70 fans.
However, Gambler's Diabolical Dime will one day be a prized collector piece amongst the folks you described in the "Can't fix stupid thread", who finally woke up and wished they would have listened.
I miss that thread!
Greg
Gambler, I can only guess that if the 455 shoots good, it's gonna sell.
If it shoots no better than a 452, the 452 very well may appreciate in value.
The folks with Brno's probably consider them to be higher quality than CZ's. I know from a discussion with one guy who is extremely prominent to Brno/CZ fans, he prefers the Brno.
Look at it like this, for the CZ fans, the changes being made will be every bit as abominable and talked about as the pre/post 64 debate amongst Winchester Model 70 fans.
However, Gambler's Diabolical Dime will one day be a prized collector piece amongst the folks you described in the "Can't fix stupid thread", who finally woke up and wished they would have listened.
I miss that thread!
Greg
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gambler
Guest
i was wonderin if the changes would make the 455 more user friendly or easier
to be custom smithed fer a benchrest rifle ??
most suhls just need a stock and bedding job, sako needs a good trigger and
has bedding issues, my kimber has a left twist and a pinned barrel.
it would be nice to buy a factory rifle and adjust the trigger and shoot it without involvin a gunsmith
to be custom smithed fer a benchrest rifle ??
most suhls just need a stock and bedding job, sako needs a good trigger and
has bedding issues, my kimber has a left twist and a pinned barrel.
it would be nice to buy a factory rifle and adjust the trigger and shoot it without involvin a gunsmith
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gambler
Guest
at the shop today i overheard two guys talking how they wished they could still get the cz with the 28 in. barrel because they shot the best, i started thinkin "WHY ?"..could it be they shot the cheaper/faster ammo and the longer barrel slowed the bullets down making them think the longer barrel
was best
i'm thinkin i might get one NIB and sit on it jest to see what the future brings, will the 2 0z. trigger still be produced, will cz addicts still continue to custom
the 452 or switch to the switch barrel 455 ???????
was best
i'm thinkin i might get one NIB and sit on it jest to see what the future brings, will the 2 0z. trigger still be produced, will cz addicts still continue to custom
the 452 or switch to the switch barrel 455 ???????
gambler
Howdy!
Yup, the 452 will be customized for a long time to come, and if the 455 shoots, it will be customized too.
I checked out the thread from the above link to RFC earlier, they might just do better with the barrel setup than I thought. That barrel attachment method looks better than the one I saw earlier on another link.
I still think that the 452 will be more desirable because of the quality.
If those guys were just shooting iron sights, they might have been getting better accuracy from the longer sight radius. Or they might have just been repeating something they heard someone else say.
I hope the CZ will be good, but I am still sticking with my earlier Model 70 pre/post 64 argument.
Greg
Howdy!
Yup, the 452 will be customized for a long time to come, and if the 455 shoots, it will be customized too.
I checked out the thread from the above link to RFC earlier, they might just do better with the barrel setup than I thought. That barrel attachment method looks better than the one I saw earlier on another link.
I still think that the 452 will be more desirable because of the quality.
If those guys were just shooting iron sights, they might have been getting better accuracy from the longer sight radius. Or they might have just been repeating something they heard someone else say.
I hope the CZ will be good, but I am still sticking with my earlier Model 70 pre/post 64 argument.
Greg
Bill Wynne
Active member
The manufacture says the changes are improvements for a couple of reasons: Better uniformity and tighter tolerances. What is bad about that?
Let them build the rifles anyway they like. If we like them we will buy them.
Has anyone writing here actually shot one of these new 455s?
Concho Bill
Let them build the rifles anyway they like. If we like them we will buy them.
Has anyone writing here actually shot one of these new 455s?
Concho Bill
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gambler
Guest
have not heard diddly about the Sako Quad since the P94 was dropped, hope CZ ain't messing up, but the Sako comp trigger is out of production...will the
promised cz comp trigger be built or dropped ???
I KNOW ASK THEM !)chillD
promised cz comp trigger be built or dropped ???
I KNOW ASK THEM !)chill
D
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takdriver
Guest
Yodave posted a trigger option for the 452. Here's the link:
http://www.takdriver.com/showthread.php?t=430
It's not 2 0z. but it's an an improvement. I would love to see the 2 oz. though. I have a couple 452's
http://www.takdriver.com/showthread.php?t=430
It's not 2 0z. but it's an an improvement. I would love to see the 2 oz. though. I have a couple 452's