Custom die help

8

8541

New member
I have a .333 NK. .30-.378 Wby I built on a Hall action, 34 in. Pac-Nor 3/3 that I shoot long range steel targets with. The rifle has shown a lot of promise with just virgin brass, 103-105 gr. of H50BMG and 240 SMK's at 3000+ fps. I am looking to have a custom FL sizing die made. I have talked to Ben at Hornady and petty close to having them build me a die. Questions are:

Their standard (custom) FL die does not come with the ability to use adjustable NK bushings. As far as NK tension goes, what you have the die ground at is wht you get. Is + or - .001 NK tension something to get worried about? .002-.003 in the right area?

The make what they call a "match grade" die that you can use bushings with and also has an eliptical shaped expander button. I have read many times that any kind of expander button is a no-no to use in a bench rest set up.

I think it is pretty obvious what I am trying to do; minimally resize my brass and attain maximum accuracy potential with my set up. Any thoughts or guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John
USMC Scout Sniper 88-94
 
I will check for sure, but .334-336 I think.....obviously with this rifle I have to neck turn before I seat bullets. Loaded rounds are .330-.331
 
First,
I think your bullets are going way too fast for best accuracy. They've got lots of energy, but, I'm not gonna say that's good in a target environment.

I say no, +/- .001 on your neck tension isn't an issue unless you are down to where you have only .001 tension left. Going much past .003, and you really are not going to gain anything in neck tension because the brass will bell mouth as you push the bullet in, and effectively it will 'expand' the mouth of the case anyway. So, if they give you .005 or .006 of sizing capability, you should be fine. If they give you more than that, then you can control tension with neck turning as Al says above.

I don't agree that all expanders are bad. I will say I think they are bad when the neck is filthy or you've sized the case a mile too far. Most of the ones I've seen are soft steel and stick so much they stretch the case shoulders or deform the neck. That of course is no good. But, ones made from good steel and which expand on the way in, not the way out, those are great. I think you'll find a majority of shooters in long range br use an expander. Maybe not a huge majority, but, more than 50% (imo).

I personally prefer one piece dies to bushing dies, but, that may also be because it's been a while since I used a mass produced die. I've never had good luck with bushing dies. A good die that fits your gun will trump those things every time.
 
Thanks for the help gents, I wil set it up as a 1 piece die at .003 tension

Al, I am not a huge fan of the really thin necks either, I won't do it again.

4Mesh, have an opinion on velocities of the 240's? I have a box of the new Berger 230 OTM's I am going to try next week. .719 (G-1)

John
 
8541 said:
4Mesh, have an opinion on velocities of the 240's? I have a box of the new Berger 230 OTM's I am going to try next week. .719 (G-1)

John
Click to expand...
My opinion is only based upon what I've seen work best for the guys who shoot them best at 1K, and only in the context of shooting for maximum accuracy. Expectations when hunting will change the velocity more toward what you are getting now. My own first hand 240's experience is limited, and limited to match use. But what I have seen mirrors what I've been told by others.

2650-2900 would be where I've seen the best performance in matches at 1K. Much higher than that and you're talking about people who didn't spend much time in the top 10 at Williamsport. The handful of guys who shot them the absolute best, claimed to be in the 2725 range (I tend to believe them).

I'd be inclined to say the Bergers will tolerate less max velocity than the Sierra's will. The 230s are really nice looking bullets. Very consistent. I'd almost bet they won't shoot well at >2850. "Shoot well" to me means, top competitive accuracy, like, beat 100 other shooters on any given day. Not "O.K. backyard use accuracy. I'm just saying, I'd expect rather a lot. This is a benchrest forum.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For Custom dies I would either go with the guys at Hornady as they would do a good job for you and probably save you some $$$$

I would also consider giving Al Warner a call at Warner Tool. Makes the Warner rear sight and builds F-Class guns, Palma etc....Take a look at his sizing/bushing die he has on his website. You can supply a chamber reamer drawing but if I remember correctly he also wants one or two pieces of once fired brass.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Thanks Frank. I am aware of Al's dies. I have spoken to him on the phone as well. Btw, I have one of your barrels on a new 338 wildcat (Lapua based) that should be in my hands soon.

4Mesh; I try to incorporate as much benchrest technology and therories as I can into my long range steel target / tacticle / hunting rifles. Obviously I am looking for the highest degree of accuracy as I can get, but in a field enviroment without the use of windflags and benchrest quality platforms to shoot from. So I have a bit of a balancing act to play. Your thoughts are appreciated, if I can not meet my accuracy goals at 3000 I will slow them down. I sure hope the Bergers like 3000+.
 
The Sierra 240 SMK will fly good at 3000 FPS, they were shot out of the 30-404 at this speed at Williamsport, by many guys that won aggs.

I personally shoot them at 2860 fps out of a 300 wby imp case, with great results.
 
Frank Green:
I have one of your barrels in an 8" twist chambered in .243 A.I. which shoots fantastic. I was so impressed I turned around and bought another blank with the same twist getting ready to have chambered. Haven't decided on the caliber yet but want to commend your barrels.
 
Just cause the die comes with an expander, doesn't mean you have to use it. If you want to use the decapping pin you can put in a smaller caliber expander button and it won't touch the neck. Reading bushing dies come with a small one, but you can do it to other dies as well. I don't use a decapping pin. I knock the Primers out by hand. Matt
 
Expanders got a bad reputation because in most cases the dies that they come in size case necks way too much. A friend has a custom Hornady, one piece FL die that has its neck dimensioned so that with the expander he gets .002 neck tension, and without .003. This small amount of expanding causes no problems. Next time, if well used fired brass is avaliable in the caliber that you select, you will probably find it more economical to size some brass, measure it, and order a camber reamer that gives the fit that you want.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top