I am about to open my last 1000 count ball of original fowler bullets and i am really bummed out about it. I have shot this bullet for two years now and i have learned it well. Since i can no longer get my hands on any of these original fowler bullets i got to thinking about the new "made by someone else" fowler bullets. Have any of you fine gentlemen shot any of these new folwer bullets? Are they the same as the old ones? I like the 66gr 7 ogive type of bullet, and whatever maker i end up with next will have to offer a bullet similar to the folwer. Any ideas of who might make such a bullet? I may end up just shooting the 68gr Berger bullet. I sure like that bullet as well. I do have a little BT bullet that i dearly love to shoot, that being an Ulrich 66gr Little ugly. These bullets are a 6 ogive and they look like footballs. Boy do they shoot. I do need to find a FB bullet though. thanks Lee
Current made fowler bullets
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
E
eww1350
Guest
Lee...try some of the Ronnie Cheek 66grain bullets...I think you will be surprised how well they tune...I think they are equal to any out there..
Eddie in Texas
lee i also ran out of some bullets i got from jeff and i might say he did not give them to me easily, I had to be shooting comp with them ect,ect...well i only shot them once and a while..well ran out over a year ago..I got a 500 lot of them from scheider accuracry last summer and just got another 500 lot last week..so we will see how they shoot but the first 500 lot shot well. here is one target i shot with some of that first 500 lot and backed it up with a .160 something..so they shot well,but i do have to say the ones i got from jeff seemed to be magic..
Is there something to old bullets? Like leave them sit open in the basement and they get slightly tarnished and man do they shoot, fresh shiney new one's dont seem to shoot as well, untill they get a little tarnished and your allmost out and you have a new lot. then you are savering what was left of the old lot..
Is there something to old bullets? Like leave them sit open in the basement and they get slightly tarnished and man do they shoot, fresh shiney new one's dont seem to shoot as well, untill they get a little tarnished and your allmost out and you have a new lot. then you are savering what was left of the old lot..
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Here's the deal. If they look good and came out of the same dies they're likely to be the same bullets. The adjustments on bullet dies simply don't have the margin to make bullets much different from batch to batch. I'll try to explain to add some degree of credibility to that seemingly BS statement. If the cores are not consistent, some of the jackets will rupture and some will stick on the punch when core seating. If an inconsistent core seating method is used it will show up on the meplats, and worse, some will stick on the knockout pin. The point I'm trying to make is that a production bulletmaker simply can't live with these effects and will make the adjustments for a smooth operation. A smooth operation guarantees the bullet is as good as the die.
While were here, Jef laid out a myriad of bullet measuring tools and asked me to sit down and try to tell the difference in two piles of bullets. I assumed that there actually was a difference and set out to find it. After an hour or so I gave up declaring there was no difference. He gave me a handful from each batch and asked me to load and shoot them. I did and there was a difference! One batch shot very well and I'll challenge anyone to try and get two of the others to touch. Turned out that the only difference was the lead used to make each lot. Don't know why - they all weighed the same??? I thought of this when I read of the Berger recall. Jef made good on every order and even had some returned that weren't bad. I asked how he knew which was which and he said "all you have to do is shoot two or three of them". Made sense!
While were here, Jef laid out a myriad of bullet measuring tools and asked me to sit down and try to tell the difference in two piles of bullets. I assumed that there actually was a difference and set out to find it. After an hour or so I gave up declaring there was no difference. He gave me a handful from each batch and asked me to load and shoot them. I did and there was a difference! One batch shot very well and I'll challenge anyone to try and get two of the others to touch. Turned out that the only difference was the lead used to make each lot. Don't know why - they all weighed the same??? I thought of this when I read of the Berger recall. Jef made good on every order and even had some returned that weren't bad. I asked how he knew which was which and he said "all you have to do is shoot two or three of them". Made sense!
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I've shot a couple of thousand of the New Fowlers and they shot fine. I didn't change back to these since I had found a replacement maker for where I used to shoot Jef's. I'm still saving a couple of cocoons full.
Butch Lambert
Active member
I use Ronnie Cheeks 66 flat base bullets. I used to use the old Fowlers. Bills are probably great. I haven't used them.
Lee something I've learnt in Benchrest, Jeff's bullets are now unobtanium and as such ARE the best and will win matches just by loading them and pulling the trigger............and nothing else is as good, a bit like T powder.
Now being unobtanium what would you pay for a few more thousand bullets made by Jeff???.........Ian
Now being unobtanium what would you pay for a few more thousand bullets made by Jeff???.........Ian
What an interesting topic! I found about 500 of Jeff´s bullets in garage (old ones), and shot them in a new 13,5" Bartlein. They really shoot. I have over 3000 of Berger Columns and I decided to give a try to some old bullets I had. The new Bergers did not shoot bad, but the news alerted me. I must say there was a difference. Odd enough, I managed to buy 1000 Fowlers more here in Finland, I think they are "the new ones". Measured from the ogive, they are 0,04 mm longer than the old ones, and the colour is not tarnished. I haven´t had the time to test them, but I surely will.
- I would pay, say... at least 400 euros for a K of old fowlers; save them for me for WBC in Australia... --but I´m not sure if I would sell them for that.
- I would pay, say... at least 400 euros for a K of old fowlers; save them for me for WBC in Australia... --but I´m not sure if I would sell them for that.
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I'm not a great shooter but have shot great groups and great aggs w/Fowler 66's. (7 to 8 thousand ) I also used /shot 65 gr
Watson. I loaded the Fowlers & the Watsons on the lands just marking the bullet. (I call it lite-jam) Although the bullets were 1 gr. difference in weight, they shot so close to the same, I couldn't tell which was better . (Both 7 ogive ) I haven't tried any Watsons since Bart has been making them, but would like to try them again.
Watson. I loaded the Fowlers & the Watsons on the lands just marking the bullet. (I call it lite-jam) Although the bullets were 1 gr. difference in weight, they shot so close to the same, I couldn't tell which was better . (Both 7 ogive ) I haven't tried any Watsons since Bart has been making them, but would like to try them again.
I had remembered Jef's 66 grain bullets as having a 6.5 caliber tangent ogive. Now the site says 7 ogive. Probably the same, anyway. Jef's bullets also had a great big honking meplat. But at the old Charlotte 300 yard matches, I shot them along side an 8.5 ogive, and Jef's stayed right with the 8.5s.
Bart's "Watson" bullets are 7 ogive as well. Bart's "original" is "almost 8 ogive the web site says, and the rest are dual radius. No info I could find about the Zias & I can't remember Brian's original specs.
Best I can tell, Cheek's are dual radius.
BIBs in 6mm are 8.5 ogive, I *think* straight, as opposed to dual radius.
Brady Knight makes two ogives in 6mm -- I have some 9-tangent, so that's probably one of 'em.
* * *
Probably everybody should have the old 7-ogive straight design as one of the types of bullet they try with each new barrel. And probably a dual radius, a high-number straight ogive like an 8.5, and probably a boat-tail.
Easiest 7-ogives to find seem to be the "new" Fowlers, or the Watson's from Bart.
FWIW...
Edit: by the way, there is only one "f" in Jef's name, just like no final "e" in Robinett...
Bart's "Watson" bullets are 7 ogive as well. Bart's "original" is "almost 8 ogive the web site says, and the rest are dual radius. No info I could find about the Zias & I can't remember Brian's original specs.
Best I can tell, Cheek's are dual radius.
BIBs in 6mm are 8.5 ogive, I *think* straight, as opposed to dual radius.
Brady Knight makes two ogives in 6mm -- I have some 9-tangent, so that's probably one of 'em.
* * *
Probably everybody should have the old 7-ogive straight design as one of the types of bullet they try with each new barrel. And probably a dual radius, a high-number straight ogive like an 8.5, and probably a boat-tail.
Easiest 7-ogives to find seem to be the "new" Fowlers, or the Watson's from Bart.
FWIW...
Edit: by the way, there is only one "f" in Jef's name, just like no final "e" in Robinett...
Not sure if I'd sell them for 400euro............after all I can't get them no more
....Ian
....Ian" Originally Posted by jvee
What an interesting topic! I found about 500 of Jeff´s bullets in garage (old ones), and shot them in a new 13,5" Bartlein. They really shoot. I have over 3000 of Berger Columns and I decided to give a try to some old bullets I had. The new Bergers did not shoot bad, but the news alerted me. I must say there was a difference. Odd enough, I managed to buy 1000 Fowlers more here in Finland, I think they are "the new ones". Measured from the ogive, they are 0,04 mm longer than the old ones, and the colour is not tarnished. I haven´t had the time to test them, but I surely will.
- I would pay, say... at least 400 euros for a K of old fowlers; save them for me for WBC in Australia... --but I´m not sure if I would sell them for that."
For that amount I should look as selling my remaining stock!!!!!!!!!!
Rick
What an interesting topic! I found about 500 of Jeff´s bullets in garage (old ones), and shot them in a new 13,5" Bartlein. They really shoot. I have over 3000 of Berger Columns and I decided to give a try to some old bullets I had. The new Bergers did not shoot bad, but the news alerted me. I must say there was a difference. Odd enough, I managed to buy 1000 Fowlers more here in Finland, I think they are "the new ones". Measured from the ogive, they are 0,04 mm longer than the old ones, and the colour is not tarnished. I haven´t had the time to test them, but I surely will.
- I would pay, say... at least 400 euros for a K of old fowlers; save them for me for WBC in Australia... --but I´m not sure if I would sell them for that."
For that amount I should look as selling my remaining stock!!!!!!!!!!
Rick
I never trust "someone" (even when it's me). I just went to his website and looked:
http://www.cheekbullets.com/
I assume the "7/10.5" meant a dual radius, but maybe the solidus signals an "or". Certainly you could call and ask. His other design, he says on the site, is an 8. And of course he may well make a couple designs not listed on his web site.
* * *
By all means, pick bullets by how well you like the bullet maker. Wish everyone would do that...Me and my barrels can use all the help we can get.
D
david dumas
Guest
Skeet,
I shot Jeff's 22 & 30 cal bullets made by Jeff & his son, when Bill bought the dies I sat down with mic's (not calipers) and checked every measurement on some Jeff's & Bill's bullets that I could come up with including checking with 2-3 different comparator's. The bullets by Bill & Jeff where exactly the same, BUT,,,,,,,,,,, the real test was @ the range, went to my old data for loading the Jeff made bullets & loaded Bills product to the same seating/powder/primer,,,,,, YEP,,,,,, test passed with flying colors, SAME tight grouping in both my 30BR's & both my 223 factory benchrest class guns. just for ShXX & Giggles I took 5 of each 22 cal bullets, (5 Jeff's & 5 Bill's) mixed them up in a box, loaded 2) 5 shot groups & got 2 nice bughole groups.
Like RR @ bib told me a few years back, "there are lot's of really good custom bullet makers out there, BUT,,,,,nobody's bullets will work in everybody's gun every time". Order a box & try'em,,,, call Bill Scheider (843-422-3493), if you get'em & they don't work, call me to sell the leftovers,,,,
the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
DD
I shot Jeff's 22 & 30 cal bullets made by Jeff & his son, when Bill bought the dies I sat down with mic's (not calipers) and checked every measurement on some Jeff's & Bill's bullets that I could come up with including checking with 2-3 different comparator's. The bullets by Bill & Jeff where exactly the same, BUT,,,,,,,,,,, the real test was @ the range, went to my old data for loading the Jeff made bullets & loaded Bills product to the same seating/powder/primer,,,,,, YEP,,,,,, test passed with flying colors, SAME tight grouping in both my 30BR's & both my 223 factory benchrest class guns. just for ShXX & Giggles I took 5 of each 22 cal bullets, (5 Jeff's & 5 Bill's) mixed them up in a box, loaded 2) 5 shot groups & got 2 nice bughole groups.
Like RR @ bib told me a few years back, "there are lot's of really good custom bullet makers out there, BUT,,,,,nobody's bullets will work in everybody's gun every time". Order a box & try'em,,,, call Bill Scheider (843-422-3493), if you get'em & they don't work, call me to sell the leftovers,,,,
the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
DD
No Sir I can't. Not that I won't but I said all I know. Jef told me that it simply had to be the lead as that was the only difference. Further, he said he made bullets personally (with no help) to make sure and it was indeed the lead. Looked the same and the bullets weighed the same from two lots of lead - one shoots but not the other. Go figure
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Personally I have heard good things about Bill's bullets made on Jef's old dies. I know several people shooting them and they are very satisfied.
Dick
Dick