CNC/Manual Lathe

H

huntinco

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Looking to pull the trigger on a CNC Lathe and any input would be of great help..
I would like to have my selection completed by Monday..
I'm looking @ the Hass TL1 or 2, The Kent CNC precision series CSM-1440CNC, Southwestern TRAK TRL 1440EX or 1630, Fryer Custom Gun Barrel Turning Center & Tormace slant bed lathe..
 
It's hard to advise you without knowing what your expectations and intended use is. I'll point out a few details from my experience that might help.

Buying a lathe with the thought of being able to use it as both a manual and a CNC lathe sounds great in theory but doesn't seem to work that well in application. The business I took over in 2000 was historically a tool and die shop. Rows of Bridgeports, manual horizontals, engine lathes, turret lathes, jig bores, grinders, etc. I had employees with 20-30+ years experience. The same tool and die makers I learned from starting out. Problem was, CNC's made them a lost art. (No disrespect intended). I bought some CNC/manual machines with the hopes of merging their talents to CNC world. It didn't work out very well. Successful manual machinist rely on their senses and experiences. A CNC removes the ability to "feel" the cuts through the handles. Successful CNC machinists rely more on data and can make their cuts quicker and more efficiently by punching keys on the control. I do have a HAAS TL2 but the handles are removed and the rapids are turned up. It's a wonderful machine that has it's place but it's NOT a manual machine and it's NOT a production lathe. (Well, compared to a manual it is).

If you are making several identical parts with multiple tools such as muzzle breaks or dies, you can't really beat a production slant bed with a turret. This is what I do all my barrel work on too. I chamber using multiple custom boring bars and no reamers. Chamber and die configurations are about limitless but you need the ability to do dead accurate tool changes. That's just not very likely in these CNC/manual machines but the production machine is going to cost you more and you will lose the ability to conventionally chamber ream with a manual tailstock and need a manual lathe anyway.

You just ordered a HAAS mill. The lathe would have the exact same control. The program structure, editor, manual controls, etc. will be identical and guaranteed easier to go between. The TL2 I have would need the locking mechanism on the tailstock modified in my opinion. It rides on linear ball ways and it locks into cross slots spaced about every 3 inches. This works fine for centering work but it's not what I would want for typical manual tailstock operations. I would expect the CNC side of this machine to be MUCH superior to the others you listed but inferior using it as a manual machine. That said I personally would still buy the HAAS and do whatever modifications were necessary to make the tailstock work.

If your primary interest is precision chamber reaming I would use a good quality heavy engine lathe like the others use around here and save your money. If you really need the CNC capability I would seriously think about owning each separately instead of trying to get it all in one machine. If you must have it all in one machine be prepared to make some compromises or modifications. Keep in mind you can't modify a poor CNC into a good one.
 
I just was out looking at the TL2 and there is another option I see for reaming without modifying the tailstock. I've attached a picture of the tool post I use with a collet system mounted in a boreing bar holder. This is how we drill, ream, tap, etc. on this machine in CNC mode. I see no reason you couldn't mount a chamber reamer the same way and ream your chamber in manual mode using the carrage wheel. You would control the depth with the controls digital readout. Heck, I see no reason you couldn't do it in full CNC mode. Work smarter, not harder I always say.
 

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Joe Woosman said:
I just was out looking at the TL2 and there is another option I see for reaming without modifying the tailstock. I've attached a picture of the tool post I use with a collet system mounted in a boreing bar holder. This is how we drill, ream, tap, etc. on this machine in CNC mode. I see no reason you couldn't mount a chamber reamer the same way and ream your chamber in manual mode using the carrage wheel. You would control the depth with the controls digital readout. Heck, I see no reason you couldn't do it in full CNC mode. Work smarter, not harder I always say.
Click to expand...

I'm one of those manual guys switching to CNC. I've had a TL-1 for 5 years now. Your idea sounds good but unless your reamer is in perfect alignment you will end up with one or both of the following. Oversize chamber and the throat out a few tenths. Been there done that several times. I chamber hundreds of barrels every year. 15 today. I want the feedback from having my hands on the reamer and the hand wheel. I use a tool post as you do but I found a small tailstock on eBay. I machined it down to fit in a tool holder. I put it on the tool post, get my X offset and I have a miniature tailstock to push the reamer with and all the feed back. The HAAS tailstocks are a bear to wrestle. I rough out the chambers and it takes two short passes with the finish reamer to get to the correct depth. I have seen shops use a floating reamer holder and it works but the guy is not much more than a machine operator and reamers get used used well past the point being dull. I've also seen it done on a TL-2 with a tool changer and the reamer held rigidly and for production type work they get by but I could see some misalignment in every chamber. There's much more than just metal removal.

Also as has been stated they are not a manual machine.

Dave
 
Dave Tooley said:
I'm one of those manual guys switching to CNC. I've had a TL-1 for 5 years now. Your idea sounds good but unless your reamer is in perfect alignment you will end up with one or both of the following. Oversize chamber and the throat out a few tenths. Been there done that several times. I chamber hundreds of barrels every year. 15 today. I want the feedback from having my hands on the reamer and the hand wheel. I use a tool post as you do but I found a small tailstock on eBay. I machined it down to fit in a tool holder. I put it on the tool post, get my X offset and I have a miniature tailstock to push the reamer with and all the feed back. The HAAS tailstocks are a bear to wrestle. I rough out the chambers and it takes two short passes with the finish reamer to get to the correct depth. I have seen shops use a floating reamer holder and it works but the guy is not much more than a machine operator and reamers get used used well past the point being dull. I've also seen it done on a TL-2 with a tool changer and the reamer held rigidly and for production type work they get by but I could see some misalignment in every chamber. There's much more than just metal removal.

Also as has been stated they are not a manual machine.

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Feedback.
I have been using a Victor 16x40 for several years now and with working picking up past the point of keeping up I wanted to speed up many proceses except for final chambering reaming.
 
Thanks again guys for letting me pick your brain I decided on the Hass TL1.
 
I thought I would revive this old thread now that its been some time from your TL1 decision. How has it worked out for you?

Matt
Creedmoor, NC
 
Cnc-vs-manual

CNC`s are great.....when they are working......when they have a controls problem.....you may wait for parts for months....
 
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