Cleaning a Moly'd barrel?

X

xs hedspace

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Changing to hex boron, and I scoped the 6mm barrel on my F-class rifle, after I thought I cleaned it. Looked like a nice baked black enamel finish. What dissolves this stuff?? PS: The hex boron loads gave me 1 min less elevation needed at 1K yds, even with the black crud, same powder load.
 
I have used NEVER DULL to take it off bullets but do not know if it would work in a barrel.
I put a piece of NEVER DULL in a large pill bottle with some bullets then put the bottle in my rotary tumbler for an hour or so, when I take the bullets out I wipe them off with a terry cloth towel. If I want the bright finish I then tumble the bullets.
 
Try Montana Extreme Copper Killer, the red stuff. Back when I diddled w/moly I found original formula BBS to cut it perty good.
 
I use RB17 or blue wonder cleaner. I take 2 soaked patches, push them through, then brush with a wet bronz brush for 20 strokes let that stit 20 minutes, then brush again with a wet bronze brush for 20 strokes, and then patch it out, and moly is out.
 
If carbon is removed-
A patch of Pro Shot Lead Clean Cloth followed by
A couple patches of Flitz Polish
 
alinwa said:
Try Montana Extreme Copper Killer, the red stuff. Back when I diddled w/moly I found original formula BBS to cut it perty good.
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Al,
Why no more diddling with moly? I used it until being lectured by my gunsmith along with a well known bullet maker against it's use. The only reason I used it was due to the moly fad. If I have any bullets left, I won't hesitate to use them in factory bores but never in a custom barrel. There are too many testimonies, pro and con, for me to use it in a custom match barrel.
 
Chino I dont use moly but am very interested in the cons of using it in a custom barrel.
Please share what you were told.
 
Vern said:
Chino I dont use moly but am very interested in the cons of using it in a custom barrel.
Please share what you were told.
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Vern,
Some years back my gunsmith showed me the islands of moly in the bore of my Sako Vixen with a borescope. I thought I had cleaned the bore sufficiently even using JB. I also read what Don Gentner had to say and may have e-mailed him back and forth. If you venture to Gentner's website, I believe there is a very good article against using moly.

As far as match grades barrels go, I examine every barrel blank with a borescope. They are a thing of beauty; hand lapped and nearly flawless. I don't want to introduce anything that could possibly affect that barrel. It's just a personal preference for me. I will shoot moly in a factory bore. If it were good for match grade barrels, the barrel makers would recommend it. Again, that is just my opinion.
 
Removing the black stuff

After talking with a metallurgist and an inorganic chemist about this I can pass on what I have learned. When a shot is fired the heat melts the barrel steel a few molecules deep each time and creates a metallic vapour. It also vapourizes some of the copper bullet jacket and moly if it's coated along with carbon generated from the burning powder. This recondenses back onto the barrel in the first inch or so of barrel.

The moly copper carbon mixture has a lot higher surface tension than the copper carbon on its own. True solvents for the moly are powerful oxidizing agents you wouldn't want to put in a barrel. The only cure for the black crud is to break the surface tension with a conventional bore solvent and mechanically remove it by brushing and patching. This will remove the accessible surface crud. As far as removing it from the matrix of the metal I am afraid it's there for good. That crocodile skin effect we see in barrels is a result of all that crud creating surface stress within the matrix of the steel we couldn't get out.
Andy.
 
I haven't found that moly leaves any more crud in the surface cracks...... the gatorhide effect is always gonna' happen..... but I've never found compelling reason TO use moly so I only use it if I order some bullets and "all they've got is moly." Then I shoot 'em up (burning a couple percent more powder :) ) and clean the barrel with the red smelly stuff and no harm, no foul. At one time I had 5 "dedicated moly barrels" that I assumed were ruined for regular bullets. When my personal moly fad ran it's course I kinda' let them set. "Then one day" I had the inclination so I scrubbed 'em clean with BBS and ba'da-BING ba'da-BOOM, they were right on track.

opinionsby



al
 
Not exactly what I said

alinwa said:
I haven't found that moly leaves any more crud in the surface cracks...... the gatorhide effect is always gonna' happen.....
al
Click to expand...

That's not exactly what I said. I wrote "That crocodile skin effect we see in barrels is a result of all that crud creating surface stress within the matrix of the steel we couldn't get out."

You're right it will always happen and if moly is part of the mix then you won't get it or the copper or carbon out of the matrix woithout dissolving the barrel.
Andy
 
Andy if I understand you in simplistic terms the gatoring effect is caused by shooting rounds trough a dirty barrel????
 
Vern said:
Andy if I understand you in simplistic terms the gatoring effect is caused by shooting rounds trough a dirty barrel????
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Well, most likely. There's only one shot at a match that goes through a clean barrel. PS: The cracks are heat stress cracks, and a nitriding effect on the barrel surface, and I wouldn't expect any bore cleaner to get crud out of the cracks. I'm interested to see if the boron nitride leaves a residue/ring.
 
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Nope

Vern said:
Andy if I understand you in simplistic terms the gatoring effect is caused by shooting rounds trough a dirty barrel????
Click to expand...

No. Didn't say that either. Shooting a barrel will dirty it. The more you shoot it the more copper, carbon and moly (if moly is present ) there will be in the matrix of the steel especially near the throat. The worse it gets the worse the crocodile skin effect becomes. No solvent will remove these compounds when it has become part of the barrel. The only thing you can do is remove those contaminants that are accessible from the surface.
Andy.
 
Keep it simple

xs hedspace said:
Well, most likely. There's only one shot at a match that goes through a clean barrel. PS: The cracks are heat stress cracks, and a nitriding effect on the barrel surface, and I wouldn't expect any bore cleaner to get crud out of the cracks. I'm interested to see if the boron nitride leaves a residue/ring.
Click to expand...

I deliberately didn't mention the effects of chromium in the steel acting as a catalyst in the nitriding process because I wanted to keep it simple. And people still read things other than what I meant into what I wrote.
Andy
 
Andy, I am honestly not trying to be a smart a$$ but just asking questions to learn.
When there is gatoring or whatever term we want to apply to it,,,, and we shoot, does the copper, dirt and or moly fill these cracks to help smooth things out? Or rather fill the rough areas (gaps, cracks or whatever)?

Back on subject there was a thread last year late, I think that addressed the cleaning of a moly barrel. There were several proven methods that came to light.
There is also a cleaner but I dont remember who makes it that claims to clean moly.
Patch out was one of them
PATCH-OUT™ is not safe for varnish , shellac or old oil type finishes. It will remove them. However PATCH-OUT is safe for all the modern finishes ( poly-urethanes, and epoxys.) It will dissolve brass, bronze, and copper. Most aluminums (AR-15/M-16 receivers and all aluminum pistol frames) are safe with PATCH-OUT ™ , but some will discolor to a dull grey. IF you have any doubt try a test area where it will not be visible. PATCH-OUT ™ will NOT DISSOLVE LEAD but it will degrade lead so that it can be pushed out with a patch.WIPE-OUT™ contains no acid and no ammonia.PATCH-OUT™ CANNOT CAUSE RUST.It will not gum, or form solids in either the action or the barrel .PATCH-OUT™ is safe for all barrel steels, both stainless and carbon steel. Note: PATCH-OUT will remove Molybdenum.
http://www.paulcompany.com/patchout.htm
Same people that make wipe out and several others.
 
A complex chemistry set

Actually the chemistry that happens when we pull the trigger is rather complex. All that gatoring is a result of vaporized steel combining with vaporized copper, carbon and moly if it's there which recondenses to create another weird alloy if you like. But only to a depth a few molecules each time. This concoction has a higher surface tension than the unaffected steel beneath.

Just like in pottery if a galze doesn't fit the clay as potters say it will craze. It crazes for the same reason we get gatoring on the surface of the barrel a difference between the two surface tensions.

Some of the contaminants that sit on the surface of the barrel and are not deeply imbedded in the cracks will come out with solvents, brushing etc.

Nitriding of the steel also occurs when nitrogen compounds released by the buring of nitrocellulose compounds combines with the steel. Some of the higher melting temperature white metals like nickel, chromium, platinum will act as a catalyst. A catalyst is something that must be present for a chemical reaction to occur but doesn't get chemically involved in the reaction. All that in a few milliseconds each time we pull the trigger.
Andy.
 
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