Can Anyone Identify This Cartridge?

M

murphy

Guest
A friend of mine who is a carpenter found some unusual rimfire cartridges in the ceiling of an old farm house and gave me one. Can anyone tell me if this is a 25 stevens rimfire or 25 Stevens short rimfire , or something else. Bullet is inside lubricated not heel crimped like a 22 long rifle. bullet is not .257" but appears to be about .244. Oal is .9" and shell is just a little longer than a 22 long rifle and has a Dominion of Canada head stamp. Will attempt to send a picture but am not very clever at sending pics.
 

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Looks like a 22 Winchester Automatic.

You say the bullet "appears" to be .244". What is the dimension of the case neck? 22 Winch Auto should measure .250" and rim should measure .310".

Common rimfire cartridge.

Ray
 
To Cheechako.

The dimensions you give are not quite what I have but may be close enough. Diameter of the shell,just before the bullet starts is .248" and rim diameter is .308". Can't measure the diameter of the bullet without pulling the thing apart, because it is tucked away inside the shell, but with an outside shell diameter of .248" I think .244" would be pretty close. When was the 22 automatic around and is it a rifle cartridge or pistol round? Can understand why it went extinct when it is so much like, but not interchangeable with a 22 long rifle. One wonders why anyone would bother in the first place.:(
 
I hope this comes out.

My source is www.cartridge-corner.com
This site is run by Curtis Steinhauer.

I hope this helps.

Without measuring, I would say that it is either the 25 Stevens Short introduced in 1902 or the 25 Short introduced in 1860. One is worth about $1500 and the other is worth about $1.50. (Just a guess)


Caliber
Rim Diameter
Base Diameter
Neck Diameter
Case Length
Cartridge Length
Case Type
Year Introduced

25 Stevens Short 0.334 0.276 0.276 0.599 0.884 A 1902
25 Short 0.290 0.246 0.246 0.469 0.783 A 1860
25 Bacon & Bliss 0.289 0.245 0.245 0.469 - A -
25 Stevens Long 0.335 0.277 0.277 0.469 1.12 A 1890

Concho Bill
 
Bill

I don't think it's any of the 25 cal rimfires that you listed. The bullet on murphy's cartridge is inside lubricated which means that the case neck would have to be approx .275 to accomodate a 25 cal bullet.

The 25 Short and the 25 B&B are essentially the same cartridge with an outside lubricated bullet. It's a tiny revolver cartridge with a case of less than 1/2".

The 22 Winchester Auto was introduced for the Model 1903 rifle. A very similar cartridge, the 22 Remington Auto was introduced at about the same time for the Model 16 rifle. They were not interchangeable. They competed for the same market, and both lost out to the 22 L and 22 LR. Both cartridges (and the rifles) were obsolete by 1930.

I have all of these cartridges in my collection but don't have a photo of them. I can take one if anyone is interested.

Ray
 
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To Concho Bill.

Thanks for your intrest. Now I feel like Winny The Poo when he knew where the honey isn't. My cartridge does not conform to the dimensions you have given me so now I know that it is not a .25 Stevens. Pity it did not turn out to be a rare 25 short as my friend has a tobacco tin full of these unusual rounds.:D
 
To Ray

Would love to see a photo, if you are prepared to take one. Reguards Murphy.:D
 
There aren't too many opportunities here in AZ to take photographs but I managed to catch a few rays. :rolleyes:

l to r

22 Winchester Auto
22 LR
17 Hornady
22 Remington Auto

25 B&B (25 Short)
25 Stevens Short
25 Stevens Long

22wr-1.jpg
 
Bill Wynne said:
. . . Without measuring, I would say that it is either the 25 Stevens Short introduced in 1902 or the 25 Short introduced in 1860. One is worth about $1500 and the other is worth about $1.50. (Just a guess). . .Concho Bill
Click to expand...

Bill

I'm not sure where you got those $$$ numbers but, the 25 B&B is worth about $5. I wish it was $1500.:eek:

Ray
 
To Cheechako

Many thanks for the photo. That definately settles it, it is a 22 Winchester Automatic. I love this forum because there is such a tremendous pool of knowledge out there.:D:D:D
 
murphy said:
Many thanks for the photo. That definately settles it, it is a 22 Winchester Automatic. I love this forum because there is such a tremendous pool of knowledge out there.:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Murphy, Why don't you send your bullet to Ray and let him compair it to what he has so the matter can be settled without a doubt.

Ray, I was just kidding about the price. I had no idea about the value. Thanks for your expert input.

Concho Bill
 
Was it really called a 25 Bacon & Bliss ?

In the modern age we are obviously lacking in our cartridge naming skills.
 
Bacon & Company was a big CT arms manufacturer in the 1850s. The 25 Short cartridge was developed for the F.D.Bliss pocket revolver in the early 1860s.

The old names can't hold a candle to today's Benchrest wildcat cartridges. I did a series of small articles for an ammunition collectors Journal a few years ago on cartridge monikers. The BR names took the prize, hands down. :cool:

Ray
 
Yeah, we know, but nobody ever asks...............

about the little-known, and, in some circles obscure, .17-9426377.022 Nizwonger & Fess Pekkerczech Mag., did they? Little known Balkan smuggler's weapon for dispatching crab lice on dark nights when excess muzzle flash would destroy night vision so necessary when crossing carefully patrolled frontier regions. The bullet, originally a BB cap, but later a CB cap, when it was found to be effective on the green & purple-throated Pyrennees humming bird; a delicacy not only because of its taste, but just one was "just enough" (which quickly led to its dis-extinction.) The BB cap was used because it would usually bounce off a hard-headed Balkan, but the smoke from the sulphuric-primed cat'idge would fry the louse if a poorly-aimed ball didn't crush it. Yes, so many cartridges were developed in those bygone times before argone lasers could more effectively burn off those lice. We'll probably never again witness those times of necessity when firearms were such an effective tool for man's use and delight........:eek: ;) :D
 
To Bill Wynne

No need to post the cartridge, the phpto that Ray sent is nice and clear and posting it from Australia could be a problem. Wish I could get hold of some of those Baulkins lice, i'd start a game ranch.:eek:
 
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