Bubba's Second Tuner Lesson

Gene Beggs

Active member
Howdy folks! I guess this is as good a time as any to tell you about Bubba's most recent experience with the Beggs tuner. First, let me introduce you to this guy

Everyone, meet my friend "Bubba Benchrester." :D Bubba is a fictitous composite of all the shooters I have known during the past twenty years. He is smarter than the average bear and to say, "He is hard headed and opinionated," would be an understatement. I love the guy!

Bubba grew up with guns and has always been interested in rifle accuracy. He has studied long and hard and figures there isn't much he doesn't know, but like all the rest of us, he doesn't know it all and is aware of this fact. Bubba pays close attention to others and once in a while stumbles onto something that really makes a difference.

Bubba's mind is not set in concrete, he will listen to what you have to say but will not accept anything as the truth without proof; you have to show him. Such was the case recently when introduced to my new tuner design. Bubba's first lesson was related in, "Tuners,, Oh No,, not again." If you will review that thread it will bring you up to date on his progress.

The first tuner lesson is meant to be an eye opener, a convincer if you will, and boy,, was Bubba ever convinced! This morning he grabbed me by the arm and sternly said, "Listen,, does anyone else know about this? Let's keep this to ourselves."

Allright, here we go! Lesson #2

Bubba, during your first lesson we demonstrated how the rifle can be brought into tune and taken completely out of tune at will by rotating the tuner a half turn in either direction. We also learned what is meant by 'zeroing' before the first match of the day. Demonstrate to me if you will, how to set the tuner on 'zero.'

That's correct, loosen the tuner with the tommy bars and screw it all the way in to the end of the threads, then back it out one revolution, place the reference mark at twelve o'clock and tighten securely. Now,, with that done and our cartridges loaded with your favorite pet load, which we never change BTW, let's go to the 100 yd firing line.

Under any circumstances, anywhere, anytime, what is the MOST we could possibly be out of tune? That's correct, one half turn in either direction, and there is a good chance we will be in tune to begin with. If you will recall, during our first session we found the rifle was completely out of tune. The test group showed two bullet holes of vertical, which was easy to fix; we simply gave the tuner a half turn and the rifle started putting them in a dot.

We were not that lucky this morning and you notice our test group is pretty good, but not as good as we would like. It shows about one bullet hole of vertical and a little unexplained horizontal. In this case, we judge the rifle to be out of tune by about a quarter of a turn, but,, a quarter turn IN or OUT? :eek: That's easy, we can give the tuner a quarter turn in either direction and find what we want to know. If we go the correct way the rifle will put the next three shots in a dot. If we go the wrong way, it will increase the group size and show two bullet holes of vertical, in which case, we give the tuner a half turn in the opposite direction and we are there. Pretty simple; huh?

Okay, practice with this for a while and we will continue tomorrow.

Later,

Gene Beggs and Bubba
 
Bubba!

Hi Gene, your post is kind of like benchrest for dummies.

You must have some pretty smart bears around there or else you need to get out of the tunnel and enlarge your circle of friends.

Mustafa
 
To Gene Beggs...

I know your story with Bubba is just hypothetical but I assume it is also meant to illustrate what you get in real life. It appears you get almost the same group size each time you fire the rifle. That is when the group size changes it means you have caused the change with something such as a tuner adjustment. Otherwise the group will always come up the same. The group may come up big if tuner is out of adjustment, or it may be small if tuner is set right, but in all cases the group sizes vary by an amount that you can easily determine was the result of a tuner adjustment. When you adjust the tuner to produce a small group with no vertical, you will then continue to get a small group, with little variation, every time.
I've never seen a rifle perform this way but I will take you at your word that your's does, and that you get very little variation in group size. You mentioned the effect with poor tuning as being about a bullet hole's worth - lets take this as being roughly .2". We might assume then your tuner brings groups from .4 down to .2. If your rifle is like mine then it would probably be shooting groups between .1 and .3, or with a tuner not adjusted, .3 to .4. I might then pick up my rifle to set the tuner and fire a .3 group, adjust the tuner and fire a .3 group. My question is how do I separate tuner adjustment effects from group size variation?
 
pacecil,
I think your missing one important bit of information about tuners. When talking about group size and tuners, their refering to vertical, not horizontal caused by conditions. Your tuner can be right with only half a bullet hole of vertical but your group could be two inches (horizontal). The tuner will not correct for the conditions on the range. Only in the release point of the bullet at the muzzle to minimize verticle. Hope I got that explained simply.

Hovis
 
Hope I didn't step on you Gene...you know a heck of a lot more about....well anything really .....than I do when it comes to shooting or flying. Hope to meet you sometime.

Hovis
 
Hope I didn't step on you Gene...you know a heck of a lot more about....well anything really .....than I do when it comes to shooting or flying. Hope to meet you sometime.

Hovis


Hi Hovis,

Step on me? No, no, thanks for the help and the kind words; I look forward to meeting you.

Later,,

Gene Beggs
 
Hi Gene, your post is kind of like benchrest for dummies.

You must have some pretty smart bears around there or else you need to get out of the tunnel and enlarge your circle of friends.

Mustafa


Mustafa,, you are so right my friend, I do need to get out of that tunnel more often. I crawled out this evening about 8:00 pm, a tired but excited man. :D Here's what happened.

Yesterday, I installed a new Krieger barrel on a Panda sporter and of course, a tuner was standard equipment. The chambering is no-turn 220 Beggs with a .257 neck. Twenty new Lapua 220 Russian cases were plucked from the box and loaded with 20 grains of N133, lubed and fireformed. (No case prep whatsoever.) :)

No "break-in" was observed. The new barrel was patched out, left dry and fired ten times. After cleaning, the remaining ten rounds were fireformed. Borescope inspection showed no copper fouling.

The once-fired cases were loaded with 25 grains of N133, a 52 grain Cheek FB bullet and virtually no neck tension; you could actually spin the bullets in the case with your fingers. No attempt was made to establish seating depth. This is what I call a, "slip neck."

The rifle shot from the get-go and responded predictably and well to tuner adjustments. Several groups were fired in the mid to low ones and I believe with a little fine tuning, this little jewel will compete with anything on the line.

Stay tuned. Pun intended :cool:

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
pacecil,
I think your missing one important bit of information about tuners. When talking about group size and tuners, their refering to vertical, not horizontal caused by conditions. Your tuner can be right with only half a bullet hole of vertical but your group could be two inches (horizontal). The tuner will not correct for the conditions on the range. Only in the release point of the bullet at the muzzle to minimize verticle. Hope I got that explained simply.

Hovis
Man, that's the best explaination I've heard! I'm dumb and this tidbit tells all to me, thanks. Douglas
 
Confessions of a "Tunnel Rat"

Guys,
I'm afraid I'm the reason Gene had to camp out at the tunnel yesterday. :D I hope Gene doesn't mind mind me letting the cat out of the bag. That Panda he talked about is mine. Gene chambered me up a 220Beggs no turn neck and stuck it on there for me(with tuner, of course). I'm still excited about the way it shot !! :D He did a fantastic job, it shoots like a house a fire! I have made 3 trips to the tunnel and everytime I leave I feel happier and smarter. I have learned a bunch from Gene on the fine mystic art of reloading for benchrest. I'm a believer in that tuner. It seems that every one of my benchrest barrels are showing up with tuners on them. :D
I have been shooting Benchrest for about 2 years and Gene's teaching ability has advanced my learning curve by several years, maybe more. I feel lucky to only live several hours away from the tunnel. I look forward to my next trip up to Odessa, and "Thanks" Gene.:D

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going, and why am I in this basket?"

P.S. Can you guys tell I'm excited about that 220 Beggs Panda shootin' son of a gun?:D
 
Thank you Dan. I didn't want to identify you without your permission, but I'm sure glad you shared your experience with our readers. We had fun; didn't we? I will look forward to your next visit.

Keep 'em small

Gene Beggs
 
Thanks for the update Gene…

good to hear your success story.

I read about Bubba’s possible demise on your other post. Can’t say that I am sorry to hear that. Over the years, 95% of the BR shooters I’ve met have been smart and interesting individuals. Of that, 90% of them have a good sense of humor. Glad to see you are one of them.

Take care. Mustafa
 
Chronographing the load

Hi Gene,
I just now remembered that we talked about chrongraphing the load we were shooting at lunch and never got around to it when we got back to the tunnel. Do you know the approximate velocity of that 25 grain load of V V 133 that we were shooting?

Best,
Dan

"Where are we going, and why am I in this basket?"
 
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