Brass Selection?

P

Phil3

Guest
I have purchased and am awaiting delivery of reloading equipment, but will also need brass, bullets, powder, and primers. My immediate question is what would be a good brass to use for an AR15 in 223 Remington? It is apparent the AR is a bit rough on brass (dinged necks, burrs on case head from extractor, etc.). Given that, I am not sure how often I can reuse. Lapua is probably overkill, but don't want something that is at the lower end of the scale either. I am after the best accuracy possible from a gas gun.

- Phil
 
Try Winchester brass............

you can also get a brass catcher from E&L Manufacturing in Oregon. On the bench, set up a mesh bag on the right of your position, so the case strikes the mesh, then settles in the bag. If you're not shooting too fast, you won't burn the mesh. :eek::D
 
Phil,

Order a extra ejector spring. Once you get it, learn to remove the one on your bolt face and cut a couple of coils off, try it and then shorten until your happy that it ejects well without throwing your brass far and it will limit the dinging on the neck of your brass. The backup spring is in case you go to far and it won't eject. Once you tune your ejector, normally you will find three things...your brass isn't as dinged, your cases all go to the same spot and accuracy will (barely sometimes) increase because it will creat a more consistant chamber of the round. After you do this, also take a good look at how your cases fit your boltface and see if the extractor is putting to much pressure anywhere on your case (this can be done easily while you have the ejector out of the boltface). Pressure will cause a round to chamber crooked.

Hovis
 
.223 brass

Winchester brass is good on ar15's. I know a guy who has .223 brass that he has fired 12 times with no problems. This depends on your loads and chamber and reloading practices. The Remington I saw had a tipical loose production chamber.
 
Brass for AR15

I have four AR-15's and I use the cheapest, junkiest, nastiest brass I can get my hands on. Now that that is out of the way... I bought about 10K pieces from various people of the net. All of it is fired and I don't really care how much. The majority of it has crimped in primers and was shot from ARs.

Don't make a big deal about mixing brass brands... It's an AR... As for the primer pocket, I remove that crimped ring in about two seconds with an inside neck deburring tool.

Don't use the expander ball that comes with most dies, it will just over work your brass and the necks will split prematurely. Buy a Redding Type S Full Length case sizer with a .244 bushing and you'll be just fine. Remember to remove the expander ball. If you have any dinged up case mouth's, a round metal object like a small screwdriver will massage it out in just a few seconds.

For primers, I use Wolf Small Rifle Magnum or Remington 7 1/2.
Power - H4198 or H322
Bullets - Hornady 40 grain VMax
 
Phil
You want brass that is concentric so when you fire it it doesn't take on the shape of a banana.If its thicker on one side than another and then gets ripped out of the chamber while still very hot you end up with banana brass.
The old thicker thinner extreme heat thing comes into play here and is why all of the competitive 50 bmg shooters use new brass not once fired.You can't fix bent.
The other big problem with some brands of brass is being able to take the pressure of YOUR favorite load.Cases like the 25-06 and 6BR tend to shoot there best at the higher pressures.If your brass loosens up on you from the pressure your ^$@#$%# right from the start.An example most guys shooting the heavier bullets in a 6BR are using 30 - 30.5 grains of Varget and getting 40 firings out of there brass.The loads you shot in my gun were 31.5 grains of Varget and after 8 firings you will begin to lose cases from primer leakage or retention issues.
If your best accuracy is found well below your maximum load pressure related issues won't crop up.
I would get a bag of 100 pieces of new brass as its a learning curve then switch brands later on if needed.Don't buy a ton of brass to begin with as you can't re-sell it later at a decent price.Alot of the brass you see for sale is somebody elses culled brass.If you have time there is a post in the 600/1,000 yard forum entitled steelhead cases.Look for a thread by Charles E were he talks about hearing the guns sound change when you reach that next zone.In my opinion that statement is 100% spot on and we don't agree on alot of things concerning brass issues.
Waterboy
 
.223 brass

As was just stated we don't agree on brass issues alot here. Part of it is what you are doing with the brass.My expirience with AR's is limited to NRA across the course and "rattle battle" guns. As such I have no expirience with lighter loads. Most of what I have loaded is 77gr Sierras and 80gr Bergers.
"Short" course rounds 77gr for 200 standing and 300 rapids even of the bench you cant tell the brass apart mixedup headstamps or what ever.At 600yd 80gr pills however will react to everything, here brass is very important.
 
Gotta agree with Hovis about shortening the ejector spring. Glen Zediker commented in his latest book on AR's that a well known match AR builder puts ejector springs in his guns that are all 0.80" long, they all eject very well. I tried it and he's right. They're hard to measure but any shorter than 0.80" is too short, and much longer throws cases farther than I like.

Buy a set of chrome silicon (Cr-Si) ejector and extractor springs (Brownell's #078-000-103AC @ $3.84/3 for ejector; and 078-000-104AC @$2.88/3) that will last longer than anything else on the rifle, shorten the ejector to 0.80" and cases don't get beat. The Cr-Si extractor spring doesn't need the little blue plastic gizzy either. AR's kept the mil-spec springs because the military guns work hard and heavy and don't need fired cases hanging around close.

That being said, I like Winchester commercial and LC military cases. They're both about the same capacity and weight, the LC's are harder than the Hubs of Hades. RP and FC cases are too soft. Can't see much point in spending a pile of money on Lapua cases for an AR unless it's a tight chambered custom.
 
Phil
You are getting some good insight here.I forgot to mention case capacity issues with differing brands of brass but it exists in a big way on the larger volume cases like the 300 Weatherby or improved versions of it.
Phils gun for the rest of you that don't shoot with him is a full tilt rig he is starting out with to see if he wants to shoot 600/1,000 yard benchrest or some other venue.We were going to put a 12-42 nightforce on it but didn't have the proper tools with us at the range that day.
Waterboy
 
There is a bit of difference between competitive use vs hunting or plinking. If you are wanting to be competitive, you'll need to use the better components.
 
Thanks all, for the replies.

Would appear Winchester brass is a good place to start. Can get that for $21.59/100 from MidwayUSA. I would normally shoot more than 100 rounds at a time, so may also try 100 from some other maker, such as LakeCity, since that was mentioned. Or just 200 of Winchester.

On the brass catcher, interesting devices from E&L. Much more sophisticated than I thought. I will probably make my own brass net that sits to my right, that also telescopes, since I also shoot semi-auto handguns standing up and need to catch that brass as well.

I did inspect used brass from this gun, and some do show a round mark from what appears to be the ejector. Brass is thrown about 8 feet, to the right and to the rear, so will use a lighter spring. I bought this VERY handy ejector removal tool for the AR15 from Sinclairs to remove the ejector for a headspace check. Just ONE use of this thing makes the $24.50 tool worth it. Looks like it will come in handy again.

I bought a Redding full length resizing die, since I am new, and did not feel experienced enough to deal with the bushing die. But, with the Redding FL die, is it really a good idea to remove the expander ball? It may be a novice question, but without it, would it not be possible for the interior neck to be too small, shaving bullets on entry, or causing excessive tension and pressure?

Lynn's comment on my gun are not so evident upon first glance, but as Lynn found out, the trigger is quite good (IMHO). That along with the Krieger barrel, and some other parts and assembly steps are the result of me wanting to extract as much accuracy as possible from a gas gun. This learning experience is already helping build a foundation and basis for future precision shooting endeavors.

- Phil
 
AVanGorder said:
There is a bit of difference between competitive use vs hunting or plinking. If you are wanting to be competitive, you'll need to use the better components.
Click to expand...

What do you define as "components"? Rifle parts, brass, or...? - Phil
 
Phil
Some of the Redding dies come with a very slender depriming assembly and you don't need to remove them while others have a larger more blunt decapping assembly.If you have the slender version it will work just fine.
Right now your asking what the heck is the difference so I will tell you.On the slender version you will notice a slight drag on the downstroke of the presses ram because it has a long smooth taper.If you have the other version you'll most likely think you invented cold fusion while getting a hernia trying to lower the ram.You will also lose most of the hearing in your ears from the horrible screaching noises coming from the scraping of steel on brass.I of course have never forget to lube the inside of my necks so I am only guessing about the sound and hernia.

On Adrians post about the components most competitive shooters use Lapua or Norma brass and leave the factory fodder alone.
Waterboy
 
If a guy herniates hisself yanking an expander ball back through a dry case neck he needs a press with LOTS of leverage. GOOD hearing protection will nearly eliminate the thumbnail on the blackboard screech too.... :eek::D:D

Or if you're a coward you can always just lube the insides of the necks. A bore mop of appropriate caliber with some Imperial die wax works well for me because I'm an abject coward. :eek:
 
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Lynn,

The expander ball is actually a straight section (almost) that is about 3/8" long. It is .2205" in diameter at the top and .2230" at the bottom. So, it is slightly tapered.

I would use Lapua, if it would make a difference in this gun. These are about $0.50 each and Winchester is $0.22 each. Isn't the main benefit of Lapua consistency? If I sorted cases by weight, volume, sized them, uniformed the primer pocket, etc. to the Winchester, how much am I really giving up to Lapua?

- Phil
 
Larry Elliott said:
If a guy herniates hisself yanking an expander ball back through a dry case neck he needs a press with LOTS of leverage. GOOD hearing protection will nearly eliminate the thumbnail on the blackboard screech too.... :eek::D:D

Or if you're a coward you can always just lube the insides of the necks. A bore mop of appropriate caliber with some Imperial die wax works well for me because I'm an abject coward. :eek:
Click to expand...

Guess it was a good idea to have ordered the Forster press with lots of leverage, but an even better idea to have ordered the Imperial sizing wax and a bore mop. At least I got some "right" tools ordered.

- Phil
 
One thing to think about for the future

Get a receiver without the brass deflector on the right side just aft of the ejector port. And don't forget to remove those excess coil spring loops.

My brass drops right down by my feet.

Roy

P.S.: I use R-P brass also, with no problems. It is soft, but the above solves many problems.
 
Brass for AR

Winchester and Lake City have been my brass choices for Compass Lake built uppers for many years now. Lapua is for the bolt guns only. If you do decide to use the expander, I find the floating carbide button to be the least damaging to case neck alignement, and even with the button I still lube the inside of the case necks with Imperial Die Sizing Wax. Works for me.
 
Roy Allain said:
Get a receiver without the brass deflector on the right side just aft of the ejector port. And don't forget to remove those excess coil spring loops.

My brass drops right down by my feet.

Roy

P.S.: I use R-P brass also, with no problems. It is soft, but the above solves many problems.
Click to expand...

My upper receiver has no brass deflector, so good there. Just need a shorter ejector spring.

- Phil
 
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