B
bumpuncher
Guest
:dwere kind i find info about bench rest 50 matchs were you can get targets and so on:d
N
nlieber
Guest
BR 50 is rimfire I believe Airgun is 25 yard.
D
Dave Shattuck
Guest
bumpuncher,
BR-50 use to be both rinfire and airgun, but is long gone now. Our organization is called AGBR for Air Gun Bench Rest, and we shoot a for-score target with 25 bulls, plus sighters at 25Y. It's a great game and you can find out lots of information about it by going to the top of this page and clicking on Benchrest Central Home, then punching up the AGBR section listed on the right-hand side of the face page.
The guy you want to be getting in touch with is known as KingSnake on this board, but his name is Ron Lewis, and he owns and runs the Blackbelt BR Club right down the road from you in Gallion, AL. You can call him @ 334-287-3527 Mon. thru Fri. from 6:30 A.M. to 4:00P.M. Central Time, or send him a Private Message by opening any of his posts, then clicking on his name within one of those posts, then, one of the options that comes up is sending him a Private Message. Click on that. He has made several postings on this and the rimfire boards, so is easy to find.
Good luck,
Dave Shattuck
BR-50 use to be both rinfire and airgun, but is long gone now. Our organization is called AGBR for Air Gun Bench Rest, and we shoot a for-score target with 25 bulls, plus sighters at 25Y. It's a great game and you can find out lots of information about it by going to the top of this page and clicking on Benchrest Central Home, then punching up the AGBR section listed on the right-hand side of the face page.
The guy you want to be getting in touch with is known as KingSnake on this board, but his name is Ron Lewis, and he owns and runs the Blackbelt BR Club right down the road from you in Gallion, AL. You can call him @ 334-287-3527 Mon. thru Fri. from 6:30 A.M. to 4:00P.M. Central Time, or send him a Private Message by opening any of his posts, then clicking on his name within one of those posts, then, one of the options that comes up is sending him a Private Message. Click on that. He has made several postings on this and the rimfire boards, so is easy to find.
Good luck,
Dave Shattuck
G
Gary Lemons
Guest
L
ldurham
Guest
Airgun Benchrest, IFP
I've been having monthly airgun benchrest matches here at my ranch in Temecula, but we are using the IFP targets, which are loosely based on the old BR50 and BRV targets. Its the Temecula Airgun Club, shooting on the third Sunday of each month, conditions permitting.
The primary differences in the IFP game is it's fired on from 30yds, and uses a more difficult "Worst Edge scoring with no allowance for caliber, since most target/FT guns are using .177 anyhow. Another difference is there are classes for other positions, such as Offhand and Field Target style sitting on the ground type shooting.
The principle reasons we decided to use the IFP target are its ease of scoring, having values of 2pts for a hit within the outer edge of the inner ring, and 1pt for a hit within the outer edge of the outer ring, with 25 scoring shots for a total possible of 50pts. There have been NO perfect scores fired in this game since it began about eight yrs ago.
We looked at the current Airgun Benchrest game most are playing here, and mostly rejected the idea that .177 scores were routinely enhanced by the plug that gave an allowance as though it was a .22 cal. Secondarily, the scoring is a LOT more tedious due to multiple ranges and the need to "plug" all those holes.
I may be out on a line, as I now wonder if folks are even allowed to talk about an alternate target here?
I've been having monthly airgun benchrest matches here at my ranch in Temecula, but we are using the IFP targets, which are loosely based on the old BR50 and BRV targets. Its the Temecula Airgun Club, shooting on the third Sunday of each month, conditions permitting.
The primary differences in the IFP game is it's fired on from 30yds, and uses a more difficult "Worst Edge scoring with no allowance for caliber, since most target/FT guns are using .177 anyhow. Another difference is there are classes for other positions, such as Offhand and Field Target style sitting on the ground type shooting.
The principle reasons we decided to use the IFP target are its ease of scoring, having values of 2pts for a hit within the outer edge of the inner ring, and 1pt for a hit within the outer edge of the outer ring, with 25 scoring shots for a total possible of 50pts. There have been NO perfect scores fired in this game since it began about eight yrs ago.
We looked at the current Airgun Benchrest game most are playing here, and mostly rejected the idea that .177 scores were routinely enhanced by the plug that gave an allowance as though it was a .22 cal. Secondarily, the scoring is a LOT more tedious due to multiple ranges and the need to "plug" all those holes.
I may be out on a line, as I now wonder if folks are even allowed to talk about an alternate target here?
N
nlieber
Guest
Multiple ranges? .177 plug enhancements? Could you explain further? Targets are scored at the range they are shot at. If you are saying different ranges meaning distance we only shoot at 25 yds.
It may take a new person unfamiliar with using the plugs extra time to score a target but the guys in Holbrook take a min or so to do one unless there is are several boderline calls.
Shooting in different positions might be fun occasionally but I myself have never thought the FT position was a valid test. If hunting I would use a standing tree brace or lay down and use a bipod or downed tree or rock. Droping a bum bag and "harnessing up" seems unlikely during a actual hunt.
I suppose you could say the same about getting a special stock and benchrest setup but I don't use that stuff just for that reason.
Why would you feel like you couldn't talk about a different target? If you are not following any of the rules of a particular group or association you have two choices.
1 Attempt to make the existing organization change to suit your needs.
2 Make your own group or organization to suit your needs.
It seems you took the 2nd choice.
I'm not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing just trying to see what it is you are hoping to happen?
It may take a new person unfamiliar with using the plugs extra time to score a target but the guys in Holbrook take a min or so to do one unless there is are several boderline calls.
Shooting in different positions might be fun occasionally but I myself have never thought the FT position was a valid test. If hunting I would use a standing tree brace or lay down and use a bipod or downed tree or rock. Droping a bum bag and "harnessing up" seems unlikely during a actual hunt.
I suppose you could say the same about getting a special stock and benchrest setup but I don't use that stuff just for that reason.
Why would you feel like you couldn't talk about a different target? If you are not following any of the rules of a particular group or association you have two choices.
1 Attempt to make the existing organization change to suit your needs.
2 Make your own group or organization to suit your needs.
It seems you took the 2nd choice.
I'm not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing just trying to see what it is you are hoping to happen?
D
Dave Shattuck
Guest
I would certainly hope that anybody who has any ideas on different things to do with airguns would chime in here because I know I'm interested to hear about what everybody else is liking, and I'm sure I'm not the only one!
L
ldurham
Guest
Mulriple ranges and plug enhancements
We don't use plug enhancements, but the IFP game allows for shooting offhand at 20yds rather than the normal 30yds for sitting or benched shooting. Additionally, I have a 51yd underground range, and a fifty and 100yd outdoor range available, and, should some want to do it, we can use those other ranges and distances if we have enough folks for a class shoot.
Shooting at over fifty yds is very challenging, and scores over fifty percent are pretty difficult on our target, esp from the Ft position ... and I like the challenge, but I don't like to shoot offhand, and so far nobody else out has bothered with the 20yd offhand shoot either.
There is no way I can see enhancing a guy's score in a match where everyone is using a .177 gun by using a .22 sized plug. At our club, nobody uses .22 except at long range. I have carefully compared the targets we use and the ones you use, and, disregarding the extra scoring rings, they are very, very close with respect to difficuly of shooting a perfect score, but it IS easier to imagine a perfect score being fired on your one using your current rules.
I KNOW about plugs, but just happen to feel its not right to upgrades scores fired with a small caliber if that is, in fact, the NORMAL caliber choice of most contestants. I was all set to try your game until that change was implemented. As to scoring, well, its either within a line or its not, and theres only two lines, so its pretty fast to look at and add up.
Anyhow, shooting is shooting. We have a lot of FT shooting around here, annd many see this IFP thing as a good way to brush up for FT ... whatever, its a lot of fun for us. As too the sittinng onn the ground, well, we recently had a guy nearlyy shoot a perfect score in just that position, but it was an unscheduled practice match, so it didnt count anyhow.
We find that having other shooting positions and shooting lines allows us to keep shooting even though we only have three heavy benches for the outdoor 30yd bench class, plus the mixing it up is fun for some of us.
We don't use plug enhancements, but the IFP game allows for shooting offhand at 20yds rather than the normal 30yds for sitting or benched shooting. Additionally, I have a 51yd underground range, and a fifty and 100yd outdoor range available, and, should some want to do it, we can use those other ranges and distances if we have enough folks for a class shoot.
Shooting at over fifty yds is very challenging, and scores over fifty percent are pretty difficult on our target, esp from the Ft position ... and I like the challenge, but I don't like to shoot offhand, and so far nobody else out has bothered with the 20yd offhand shoot either.
There is no way I can see enhancing a guy's score in a match where everyone is using a .177 gun by using a .22 sized plug. At our club, nobody uses .22 except at long range. I have carefully compared the targets we use and the ones you use, and, disregarding the extra scoring rings, they are very, very close with respect to difficuly of shooting a perfect score, but it IS easier to imagine a perfect score being fired on your one using your current rules.
I KNOW about plugs, but just happen to feel its not right to upgrades scores fired with a small caliber if that is, in fact, the NORMAL caliber choice of most contestants. I was all set to try your game until that change was implemented. As to scoring, well, its either within a line or its not, and theres only two lines, so its pretty fast to look at and add up.
Anyhow, shooting is shooting. We have a lot of FT shooting around here, annd many see this IFP thing as a good way to brush up for FT ... whatever, its a lot of fun for us. As too the sittinng onn the ground, well, we recently had a guy nearlyy shoot a perfect score in just that position, but it was an unscheduled practice match, so it didnt count anyhow.
We find that having other shooting positions and shooting lines allows us to keep shooting even though we only have three heavy benches for the outdoor 30yd bench class, plus the mixing it up is fun for some of us.
D
Dave Shattuck
Guest
See, this is where you're wrong. In AGBR we have a totally mixed field of calibers shooting against each other all at the same time. The only limition on caliber is that they be either a .177, .20 or .22, and nothing more.
Take tomorrow for instance. I will be shooting at an Indoors AGBR event against 7 to 9 other shooters. Of those, probably 1/3 will be using .22's, plus there may even be a .20 cal. in the mix, where I will be using my little .177. With Best-Edge scoring in play I would be at a definate disadvantage going straight-up against those guys as their larger pellets would naturally make a larger hole giving them an almost unfair advantage, especially on any "close" shots, and the game would quickly change over to becoming an almost exclusive .22 caliber game, where, as you said, .177's are the norm for the majority of airgunners, and consequently would make it very difficult to drum up new shooters as most would bring in their Olympic Class guns and quickly be discouraged as they would soon realize the loop-sidedness of the scoring.
Now, when you take that out to a National level, the numbers would quickly become staggering, and I want to know that my little .177 when shot up here in New England can hold its own against every other shooter in our competition anywhere else in the country, and that I have as good a chance of winning, setting records, or whatnot as the next guy, who may be shooting out on the west coast, or down south. Then, when we finally can all get together whenever that may be, we will do so with no handicaps.
By using a stepped scoring plug (which by the way is only needed for close calls, and not every shot) it very much levels the playing field making the game an extremely fair game no matter what your preferred caliber-of-choice is.
By the way, if you think about it, any shooter who shows up at one of your matches with a .20 or .22 caliber gun would be under a distict disadvantage if he is scored straight-up against your .177 as the "larger" hole his caliber-of-choice will make would get him into the lower scoring ring that much quicker than your little .177 would, and maybe this is why you mainly see .177's on your firing line!
I'm glad that you are out there and hope your posting fires up more clubs to join in with you as it definitely sounds like you have a game going on which allows for more than one style of shooting to run simultaneously with others.
Good job!
Dave Shattuck
B
bumpuncher
Guest
have fun
shot what you want your not shooting against joe blow your shooting against yourself i shoot .177 might go to the 20 i think its the best of both worlds for both hunting and target the main thing in any sport is to have fun if you dont like the way the game is played pick up your marbles and go to another sand box iam not trying to be a hoarses rear have fun and be glad you have the right to shoot hope you break a world record just have fun
shot what you want your not shooting against joe blow your shooting against yourself i shoot .177 might go to the 20 i think its the best of both worlds for both hunting and target the main thing in any sport is to have fun if you dont like the way the game is played pick up your marbles and go to another sand box iam not trying to be a hoarses rear have fun and be glad you have the right to shoot hope you break a world record just have fun
P
Paul Bendix
Guest
Idurham,
Is there a site I could see a target that you use? I guess it's like ARA rimfire but their target you could get 100 50 25 10 or 0 score. What is the size of the Bulls? I am looking at a BR-50 target that was shot at 100 Yards centerfire or 50 yards rimfire and 25 yards air rifle. but it has 50 bulls and scored 100,50,25,10, -25 Dated 1989.
At our AGBR match today we had 9 shooters with only Match and Unlimited classes shot. Match Class all 3 were .177. Unlimited had 1 .177 and 5 .22's.
I think everyone had FUN. maybe the most fun was a fellow shooting a pistol and he held his own in match class.
Paul Bendix
AGBR Holbrook Match Director
Is there a site I could see a target that you use? I guess it's like ARA rimfire but their target you could get 100 50 25 10 or 0 score. What is the size of the Bulls? I am looking at a BR-50 target that was shot at 100 Yards centerfire or 50 yards rimfire and 25 yards air rifle. but it has 50 bulls and scored 100,50,25,10, -25 Dated 1989.
At our AGBR match today we had 9 shooters with only Match and Unlimited classes shot. Match Class all 3 were .177. Unlimited had 1 .177 and 5 .22's.
I think everyone had FUN. maybe the most fun was a fellow shooting a pistol and he held his own in match class.
Paul Bendix
AGBR Holbrook Match Director
B
bumpuncher
Guest
benchrest
here is the site and targets i use you can find here http://airgunbenchrest.com/ thats about all i can say about that
here is the site and targets i use you can find here http://airgunbenchrest.com/ thats about all i can say about that
L
ldurham
Guest
IFP targets
I got my targets from Bob Zimmerman, developer of the game in question. I don't have a picture, but you can get actual targets from Bob for a very reasonable price (I think I paid around 20cts ea.). They are printed on really good paper and the innk iis a nice dark green color that stands out well.
There are five blocks of five targets on the paper, plus an area above for sighters with three sighter targets. The official distance iis 30yds.
Scoring instructions are:
"inside 1 inch circle = 1 score
inside 1/2 inch circle = 2 score
touching outer edge = lower value"
Heres a forumj Zimmerman runs:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/AirRifle/messages/?msg=367.1
I got my targets from Bob Zimmerman, developer of the game in question. I don't have a picture, but you can get actual targets from Bob for a very reasonable price (I think I paid around 20cts ea.). They are printed on really good paper and the innk iis a nice dark green color that stands out well.
There are five blocks of five targets on the paper, plus an area above for sighters with three sighter targets. The official distance iis 30yds.
Scoring instructions are:
"inside 1 inch circle = 1 score
inside 1/2 inch circle = 2 score
touching outer edge = lower value"
Heres a forumj Zimmerman runs:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/AirRifle/messages/?msg=367.1
P
Paul Bendix
Guest
Idurham,
Thanks for the info on the targets, I will contact Bob.
Paul
Thanks for the info on the targets, I will contact Bob.
Paul
L
ldurham
Guest
D
D R Greysun
Guest
Another slant on AGBR....................!
I found this interesting:
http://www.freewebs.com/heightaddict/MASSKARA%20SHOOTFEST.htm
It may not require the precision of typical BR but it looks to be a fun shooting
sport.
D R
I found this interesting:
http://www.freewebs.com/heightaddict/MASSKARA%20SHOOTFEST.htm
It may not require the precision of typical BR but it looks to be a fun shooting
sport.
D R
D
Dave Shattuck
Guest
ldurham,
Man, that sounds like one great rifle! And, it should not only be a fine target rifle, but also a great overall hunting gun as well. Please keep us informed.
But, when it comes to hole plugging: it all depends on what your discipline-of-choice calls for regarding any caliber limitations, as well as what methods of scoring will be used.
As for our discipline, and I believe I said this earlier, AGBR calls for calibers of .177, .20 and .22 only, nothing larger, or smaller! So, at least for now our plugging method is extremely fair, and totally levels the playing field when it comes to shooting against guns of the different allowed calibers within the same Class. Nothing gained by using a larger caliber, and nothing lost by using a smaller!
Keep us informed as to how your new gun is coming along.
Dave
Man, that sounds like one great rifle! And, it should not only be a fine target rifle, but also a great overall hunting gun as well. Please keep us informed.
But, when it comes to hole plugging: it all depends on what your discipline-of-choice calls for regarding any caliber limitations, as well as what methods of scoring will be used.
As for our discipline, and I believe I said this earlier, AGBR calls for calibers of .177, .20 and .22 only, nothing larger, or smaller! So, at least for now our plugging method is extremely fair, and totally levels the playing field when it comes to shooting against guns of the different allowed calibers within the same Class. Nothing gained by using a larger caliber, and nothing lost by using a smaller!
Keep us informed as to how your new gun is coming along.
Dave