Borescoping and Moly bullets

J

JRB

Guest
I just need some advise to determine what i am seeing when looking down the bore.
I have used the same cleaning technique for the last 10 years or so.
My barrels are match grade stainless.

I have found that the bore scope can show, some areas in the bore where cleaning was not quite completed. Deposits of copper or carbon. No problem, another patch or two and its clean.

It has also shown some dark lines running down the bore, not as wide as the lands. i can not decide if i am seeing powder fouling or deposited moly?
It is not removed with my normal cleaning, and does not appear to affect accuracy. So i have found that JB cleans it out. The patch comes out black, which makes me think powder?
It also appears the dark lines highlight light fire cracking, down the bore as far as 10 inches or so? After a good scrub with JB all darkness is gone and the bore is mirror shinny.
Any thought appreciated,
Jim
 
Don't know, and really don't think anybody knows at what level of "clean" a barrel shoots best. There may not be an answer. You know how to get it clean per the borescope and if you think it needs to be that clean then do it. All I'm trying to say is that you need to balance cleaning with the outcome of cleaning. The barrel may shoot better with those streaks and it may not. Do not use the borescope to make sure you get the barrel clean when the barrel is not shooting competitively when clean. You may be inclined to think that the barrel will last longer if cleaned perfectly while placing 20th in every match. I'm believing that's not the way to think. Truth is, a competitive barrel will last about 2000 shots. I had one that lasted 3000 shots or so and another that shot one good group. If I had a borescope perhaps I could have saved the one group barrel - perhaps I wouldn't have shot 3000 from the other.

Again, I don't know....just sayin' some stuff I've gathered over the years.
 
An unknown use for the borescope, especially a Hawkeye, is to take it to your next competition and offer looks into your competitors' barrels. They'll freak out about the cleanliness of their barrel like you did and go bananas before and during the competition. Probably only work once per comptetitor, but hey...all's fair.

Dennis
 
Clay Spencer goofed me up for years with that darn borescope he had. It was, however, fascinating but.....sure goofed me up.
 
Borescopes are a very useful tool, but they can lead some to only concentrate on how clean the barrel is, rather than taking in the whole picture. Recently a friend has used his to evaluate changes in his bullet choice, and cleaning methods, and been able to come up with a very good result. On the other hand, I have another friend who merely tried to get every speck out of his barrels, and ended up chasing his tail a bit, before he realized that he needed to consider other factors in making his cleaning decisions.

Now if you really want to drive someone nuts, loan a fellow who is working with one piece FL dies and unturned case necks, a concentricity gauge for a couple of weeks, before you explain a few things to him.
 
Wilbur said:
Truth is, a competitive barrel will last about 2000 shots. I had one that lasted 3000 shots or so and another that shot one good group. If I had a borescope perhaps I could have saved the one group barrel - perhaps I wouldn't have shot 3000 from the other.

Wilbur, You are kind of dating yourself with that sentence hasn't been that way in a long time take either number and divide by three, its where we seem to be today. Some last longer but not many....George
Click to expand...
 
George maybe more.
Less than 400 rounds. Started to get heavy bolt lift. 8-10 rounds.
Can't shoot my bullets hot. Medium load or less......LT-32.
2 lands lost their edge in the first 6" of barrel. That bore scope paid for itself. I would still be trying to shoot it.
 
JRB said:
I just need some advise to determine what i am seeing when looking down the bore.
It has also shown some dark lines running down the bore, not as wide as the lands. i can not decide if i am seeing powder fouling or deposited moly?
Any thought appreciated,
Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments,
I will see how long my barrel shoots with out a clean, the only problem is one groove seem to pick up copper fouling after 30-50 shots. I have only noticed this a few times so i have not worked out if it is the same groove.
It appears to wipe across the groove full width and can be 3-10 inches long. i guess there is no turning back when you have copper in the bore, you must clean it out.
I am trying to evaluate if i have a bad groove, or the throat fire cracking is causing this deposit. I have been polishing the throat with JB, every 100 or so shots to try to prolong the eventual.
The copper deposit is happening in the mid to last parts of the bore so i guess when the pill gets moving it strips the copper and lays it down?
Do you guys think the dark line is powder or moly deposits, it is only apparent after all the powder and copper is removed from the rest of the bore, so i am guessing it is moly?

Jim
 
Last edited by a moderator:
zippy06 said:
George maybe more.
Less than 400 rounds. Started to get heavy bolt lift. 8-10 rounds.
Can't shoot my bullets hot. Medium load or less......LT-32.
2 lands lost their edge in the first 6" of barrel. That bore scope paid for itself. I would still be trying to shoot it.
Click to expand...

Can you describe what you saw, to notice two lands where damaged?
Thanks
Jim
 
At the Supershoot once I took my rifle along and had the barrel scoped (just to go in the draw) I got told the barrel needed a good scrub as there was quite a bit of carbon in the barrel.

Took a look with a scope after I got home, sure enough there was dark streaking down every groove and land for about 3/4 of the barrel, but no real build up.

I thought this may have been attributed to shooting a 10 shot 200yd match with that barrel and my normal cleaning regimen not getting all the carbon out..........never did make up my mind, but the way that barrel was shooting at the Supershoot I sure wasn't going to start scrubbing the barrel.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I've always thought if the barrel is shooting it's clean enough, if it stops shooting then perhaps there's something wrong.........Ian
 
Borescope

Dusty Stevens said:
A shooter should never use a borescope. Youll doubt that barrel from then on
Click to expand...

Exactly Correct............
before I bought mine 10yrs. ago a friend said "don`t put that thing in your favorite good shooting gun"......
well......I looked ......
life got real complicated after that......
 
zippy06 said:
George maybe more.
Less than 400 rounds. Started to get heavy bolt lift. 8-10 rounds.
Can't shoot my bullets hot. Medium load or less......LT-32.
2 lands lost their edge in the first 6" of barrel. That bore scope paid for itself. I would still be trying to shoot it.
Click to expand...

Tim, your right I was trying to be kind and stay away from a big argument.. Finding 400- 600
 
JRB said:
Can you describe what you saw, to notice two lands where damaged?
Thanks
Jim
Click to expand...

The grooves have fire cracking. I don't shoot HOT loads. So this showed up early.
The lands had a wide narrow wide look. They machine marks got narrow. Looking more closely the fire cracking was into the land. No distinct edge. The heavy bolt lift was real sudden. Tried the Iosso polish and it became more pronounced easier to see. The other 2 lands were fine.
Tried shooting this barrel after a real good cleaning. Round number 8 heavy bolt lift. primer flatter.

The groups opened up, just before this. 4 and 1. 4 in a dot. And no reason for the flyer. That was the start of trying to figure out the problem.
I put this barrel on at the IBS Nationals. Sat next to some really good shooters. My groups were a little bit bigger. For the most part they were similar.
Next tournament was home range. Wow. What a difference. I have never been last place.
April match junk again. But, not last place. June way better. New barrel. I do shoot in the winter.......
my point. You may have heard it before. When you have a bad barrel. It's a bad barrel. sometimes it creeps...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top