bonded cores, coper tubing jacket, dual rverse jacketed bullet aka A-frame

OliveOil

OliveOil

Active member
I use to hunt big trophy wild boars in the 200 pounds in south of France. This is silent stalking, puffing flour to check wind direction, with .308W shot taken from 5 to 150 yards.

Those beast are heavily armored with thick skin and 2" of very hard fat from neck to mid chest (often found 00 buck caught in armor), have a thick fur full of dried mud and gravels. Broadshots are usually OK, but I had issues (too much) on facing or quartering shots, or impact in the pelvic bone, from lack of penetration to erratic trajectory in game or total bullet disintegration.

Musing here and there, I read about home made bonded core bullets, Corbin coper tubing jackets and about a technique of placing a cored 243 jacket base up in a .30 jacket, seat, add a short core, seat again and point, some kind of home made A-frame bullet.

I already talk with a nice guy from Michigan who tried the core bonding technique, ran some penetration tests on soaked paper and could not really assess a penetration / shattering difference in between bonded and non bonded bullets.


Has anybody here has knowledge / experience of such bullet making and ran some terminal balistic testing, or maybe someone could share some tough game hunting experience with such bullets ?

Thanks.
 
I used to use Nosler Partition bullets back in the day, a similar design. I was given a box of Barnes "X" bullets to try by Randy Brooks back in 1990 at the SHOT show. I have used nothing else for hunting ever since. Used in everything from .222 to.375H&H, every animal has been recovered in less than 50 yards. I have only recovered 2 bullets, 1 45gr from the .222 under the offside skin on a Fallow deer doe, and the other a 270gr .375H&H in the neck skin of an Eland after a Texas heart shot.
 
Lots of articles in the gun press lately about the new Federal Trohy Bonded Tip bullets, available in loaded ammo and as components. Plenty of info about construction and penetration tests.

I started out huning deer with Remington 180 grain Core-lokt bullets. Deer very cooperatively died quickly. Later went to Nosler Partitions. Deer also died quickly. Then I went to Barnes X and Triple-shock. Again, quick death.

If you need reliable expansion from 50 yards to 1000 yards, then spring for the pricey Trophy Bonded Tip. If I was hunting hogs at reasonable distances, I would go with the Triple-shock.
 
bullets

Ive killed whitetails with nosler part and ballistic tips. hornady iterbonds, killed an elk with a barnes . Shot deer with sierras and the core was blown out of the jacket. Only bullet screw up I ever had. Doug
 
OliveOil said:
I use to hunt big trophy wild boars in the 200 pounds in south of France. This is silent stalking, puffing flour to check wind direction, with .308W shot taken from 5 to 150 yards.

Those beast are heavily armored with thick skin and 2" of very hard fat from neck to mid chest (often found 00 buck caught in armor), have a thick fur full of dried mud and gravels. Broadshots are usually OK, but I had issues (too much) on facing or quartering shots, or impact in the pelvic bone, from lack of penetration to erratic trajectory in game or total bullet disintegration.

Musing here and there, I read about home made bonded core bullets, Corbin coper tubing jackets and about a technique of placing a cored 243 jacket base up in a .30 jacket, seat, add a short core, seat again and point, some kind of home made A-frame bullet.

I already talk with a nice guy from Michigan who tried the core bonding technique, ran some penetration tests on soaked paper and could not really assess a penetration / shattering difference in between bonded and non bonded bullets.


Has anybody here has knowledge / experience of such bullet making and ran some terminal balistic testing, or maybe someone could share some tough game hunting experience with such bullets ?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


Southern France? Been to Marseilles. Beautiful area. The Wild Boar population has exploded here in Texas. Hunting them from Helicopters using Ar's is a popular fun hunt. Its not unusual to encounter 200 pounders.

Glenn
 
Hi Glenn,

I am located a litttle North-East from Marseille in between Sainte-Victoire and Sainte-Baume mountains. Here I hunt, on Mont-Aurelien.

Regarding Texas and "flying contractors", I think they are more on feral pigs culling than what we are calling Wild Boar here. The latin name of our beast is Sus Scrofa. And of course, we also have hybrids with domestic pigs and even Chineese pigs (the last one being very dangerous). But these are just for meat, not trophy.

Here's a picture of my prefered game :

vlv275.jpg


He is a beauty, big head, high shoulders, low ass, usually thin and not "round" like those with some domestic pig gene.

Here's one of mine :

4h4ix8.jpg


Some souvenir :
xytt5d.jpg



Going in a thick bush into which I can barely move and barely take an aim with a rifle when I am in need to recover a wounded one at nightfall is not a true relaxing experience. Reminds me some storry in "Modern African Adventures" by Ed. Matunas, aka "who is REALLY playing the game ?"


I consider a Barnes .308 as a no-no for these animals. Starting straight from the beginning with -20% material density, then go to a longgggggg bullet to recover some sectional density at the cost of Sg, and finally have a bullet quickly doubling caliber with poor Sg at expansion, this I don't want. This is NOT a penetration insurance on thick/tough skinned, heavy boned animal for quartering or facing shots.

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or A-Frame are not available here as reloading components. As I wish to roll my own .30 for the short BR, I am looking for some real performance / real info about coper tubing and dual/reverse jackets bullets on quartering or lengthwise shots.

Let's consider that for this particular game, I am looking at something about A-Square Dead Tough bullet performance for my little local Cape Buf.

I remember your name in PS quite some years ago when I get started in BR. Feel some kind of magic talking with you ...
 
Glenn, Remember the young Lady that worked at Shilen and went out with her dogs and a knife hunting them? I asked her if she used a special knife and she said yes, cheap and sharp.
 
OliveOil said:
Hi Glenn,

I am located a litttle North-East from Marseille in between Sainte-Victoire and Sainte-Baume mountains. Here I hunt, on Mont-Aurelien.

Regarding Texas and "flying contractors", I think they are more on feral pigs culling than what we are calling Wild Boar here. The latin name of our beast is Sus Scrofa. And of course, we also have hybrids with domestic pigs and even Chineese pigs (the last one being very dangerous). But these are just for meat, not trophy.

Here's a picture of my prefered game :

vlv275.jpg


He is a beauty, big head, high shoulders, low ass, usually thin and not "round" like those with some domestic pig gene.

Here's one of mine :

4h4ix8.jpg


Some souvenir :
xytt5d.jpg



Going in a thick bush into which I can barely move and barely take an aim with a rifle when I am in need to recover a wounded one at nightfall is not a true relaxing experience. Reminds me some storry in "Modern African Adventures" by Ed. Matunas, aka "who is REALLY playing the game ?"


I consider a Barnes .308 as a no-no for these animals. Starting straight from the beginning with -20% material density, then go to a longgggggg bullet to recover some sectional density at the cost of Sg, and finally have a bullet quickly doubling caliber with poor Sg at expansion, this I don't want. This is NOT a penetration insurance on thick/tough skinned, heavy boned animal for quartering or facing shots.

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or A-Frame are not available here as reloading components. As I wish to roll my own .30 for the short BR, I am looking for some real performance / real info about coper tubing and dual/reverse jackets bullets on quartering or lengthwise shots.

Let's consider that for this particular game, I am looking at something about A-Square Dead Tough bullet performance for my little local Cape Buf.

I remember your name in PS quite some years ago when I get started in BR. Feel some kind of magic talking with you ...
Click to expand...






Its my pleasure to meet a French BR shooter on this site. Been around here a long time. Dont know if I’ve learned much, but still having fun. The last match I shot in,I didn’t have much magic. If I met you in person, what name would you like to be called?

That is a mean looking hog in the photo. We’ve got wild Russian Boar here but mostly a feral mix. Some are huge. My neighbor got a 200+ pounder a couple months ago, with a Bow. I would post a photo, but there is or was a forum policy that prohibits the posting of dead animals.

Hog hunting is big business here in Texas. Check out the link below with ammo recommendations used, in AR’s,, to anchor these tough animals. As you know, Wild boars are also hunted with knives here in the US. Now that takes some Balls.

https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammunition/brands/boar-buster.html
 
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Glenn,

Thanks for the link.

In center and northern of France, we have a very few people hunting boars with spears. They use plenty of dogs to cap the boar, and then they come to kill it with the spear.

But they have no wolves over there. Here we have them for some years now, and the boar behaviour radically changed.

Before the wolves era, the boars were put to motion and running in front of the dogs. The average hunter was shooting at them along some known escape path all around a territory.

Now, boars don't run anymore, they wait for the dogs in heavy bushes and kill them straight away. They look for the contact instead of avoiding it by running. Years ago, females were always running, sometimes biting the dogs, cutting skin or breaking a leg but not willing to kill the dogs. Today they open their mouth (because they have shorter teeth) and slash the dogs to death.

I know a local team that almost lost a quarter of their dog team this year, all ripped off and DRT, no vet needed.

Darwin at work I guess, but believe me, I do not want to have to come to contact with an angry wounded boar like the one above. That happened once, enough to me.

So .... Some kind of round nose, maybe nose riding, heavily jacketed (coper tubing), maybe bonded, or a dual jacketed bullet project is gently warming on the back burner ... 50 pieces a year on the hydraulic press will be enough to me.

I am looking for someone's experience with such bullet constructions .... either in game or media. Mr. Corbin wrote me about customers hunting Africa (including Cape Buf) and swaging their own " aka A Square Dead Tough" using thick wall coper tubing.


Oliver.
 
OliveOil said:
Glenn,

Thanks for the link.

I am looking for someone's experience with such bullet constructions .... either in game or media. Mr. Corbin wrote me about customers hunting Africa (including Cape Buf) and swaging their own " aka A Square Dead Tough" using thick wall coper tubing.


Oliver.
Click to expand...


OK, Oliver...I have a friend, retired BR shooter, who has been on over 20 African safari's, He's got most of the plains game trophy's and leopard, lion and two Cape Buffalo's. I've seen the trophy's. He would be delighted to share with you,his hands on African Safari experiences. The Rifles,Ammo,etc,etc. I've seen his videos of Cape Buffalo hunts. He talks a lot about Nosler Accubond bullets.

I will PM you contact info.

Glenn
 
Chism G said:
OK, Oliver...I have a friend, retired BR shooter, who has been on over 20 African safari's, He's got most of the plains game trophy's and leopard, lion and two Cape Buffalo's. I've seen the trophy's. He would be delighted to share with you,his hands on African Safari experiences. The Rifles,Ammo,etc,etc. I've seen his videos of Cape Buffalo hunts. He talks a lot about Nosler Accubond bullets.

I will PM you contact info.

Glenn
Click to expand...
some I used 76 percent antimony in 7mm pentrarion was very good also shot it in6 ppc terrific mistake only 6 percent
 
That is common practice (hunting hogs with dogs and knife) in southern and central Florida. The Florida legislature passed a law back many years ago that trespassing while armed was to be a felony. The biggest and badest hogs are all on private land and to hunt them the knife and dog style was to prevent jail time. Dogs and knife is simple trespassing. But I haven't meet too many women that do it that way.
 
oliveoil said:
glenn,

thanks for the link.

In center and northern of france, we have a very few people hunting boars with spears. They use plenty of dogs to cap the boar, and then they come to kill it with the spear.

But they have no wolves over there. Here we have them for some years now, and the boar behaviour radically changed.

Before the wolves era, the boars were put to motion and running in front of the dogs. The average hunter was shooting at them along some known escape path all around a territory.

Now, boars don't run anymore, they wait for the dogs in heavy bushes and kill them straight away. They look for the contact instead of avoiding it by running. Years ago, females were always runn ibiting the dogs, cutting skin or breaking a leg but not willing to kill the dogs. Today they open their mouth (because they have shorter teeth) and slash the dogs to death.

I know a local team that almost lost a quarter of their dog team this year, all ripped off and drt, no vet needed.

Darwin at work i guess, but believe me, i do not want to have to come to contact with an angry wounded boar like the one above. That happened once, enough to me.

So .... Some kind of round nose, maybe nose riding, heavily jacketed (coper tubing), maybe bonded, or a dual jacketed bullet project is gently warming on the back burner ... 50 pieces a year on the hydraulic press will be enough to me.

I am looking for someone's experience with such bullet constructions .... Either in game or media. Mr. Corbin wrote me about customers hunting africa (including cape buf) and swaging their own " aka a square dead tough" using thick wall coper tubing.


Oliver.
Click to expand...
i made some 6 percent antimony in 7mm 160 gr pen was great on elk bill b
 
Thanks Bill.

""Regular"" core seated jackets or {bond first, core seat next}

J4 /Hines or thicker Sierra / Corbin jackets ?
 
OliveOil said:
Thanks Bill.

""Regular"" core seated jackets or {bond first, core seat next}

J4 /Hines or thicker Sierra / Corbin jackets ?
Click to expand...

With J4 jackets, you will likely be quite pleased with "bonding" then pointing - without "seating" the cores - seating will shear the lead at the bond-line. To find out how/what I know, e-mail me: < bibrob@minburncomm.net >;)RG
 
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