big AL--- 'SPLAIN TO ME.....

[CMaier]

how you get a reamer to match a sizing die ?
( for those not listening i did NOT say how to get a die to match a chamber)
i have seen you make comments, so what do you do ?
chamber cast the die ? measure the die ?
thanks

 

[mwezell]

how you get a reamer to match a sizing die ?
( for those not listening i did NOT say how to get a die to match a chamber)
i have seen you make comments, so what do you do ?
chamber cast the die ? measure the die ?
thanks

I do the same on many reamers...spec them to work with a given die. Yes, a cast of the die will work but there's a much easier way. Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Gauge is a wealth of knowledge in this area as he supplies many of the reamers to the die makers, giving him firsthand specs for the reamer that cut the die you're trying to match the chamber to. Simply ask Dave if he can supply a reamer that will produce a chamber that is appropriately larger than the die you'll be using. The actual dimensions are somewhat personal preference but a chamber reamer that cuts a chamber .003" larger than the resize reamer works very well and yields very good brass life. Due to springback, you get brass that is nowhere near .003 smaller but rather, the shoulder/body junction will finish about .0015 smaller and the Web will only size about .0005". Works great and it makes it very simple to use off the shelf dies from most makers with good brass life and minimal sizing. Essentially, it's just the opposite of buying custom dies. Good luck finding that kind of "nuggett" of info anywhere but on this site. ---Mike Ezell. P.s.--- I should add that Al plays with big calibers and his numbers will likely differ from mine a little. I've used .003 on several ppc and br diameter chamberings.

 

[alinwa]

I think I've done it every way possible, including Cerrosafe.

I perty much agree with Mike. And yes, I use slightly different numbers mostly and even taper some of my chamber reamers differently than the die reamer (or the die, however arrived at)

I've had bad luck using factory dies as the basis of a build, they're TOO SMALL for me, but I've ordered several reamers from Dave Kiff egg'zackly as Mike sez..... I've had Lester Bruno mail some dies right to Kiff, he measures them up and makes a reamer appropriately, to my taper specs. I've done it, and Dave has nailed the measurements, and the method is successful but TOO SMALL FOR ME. I don't do it any more.

I make my chambers huge at the back to allow for slight casehead expansion. I load HOT and want my brass to last forever and ever and ever A'men and NEVER CLICK....I do whatever it takes to allow this. 50 reloads at high pressure is my minimum.

My problem has always been that I'm an information junkie. I want a PLAN before I spend money...I go right to the sources and then act on advice. I've had guns built with min spec SAAMI chambers "to contain the case expansion" and for "better alignment" and "to keep the cases from bulging on one side" and ON and ON and ON.....I even paid for a custom action with the boltface recess spec'd to only .002 over the Lapua casehead.....again "to contain casehead expansion"......what a friggin' NIGHTMARE that boondoggle was! And I've concluded that I HATE small chambers....because they simply do not work. So I am forced to order special die reamers or have dies made to spec as one-offs.

I've tried everything, lissened to everyone and done it every way.....And I've tens of thousands of dollars later concluded that 9/10 of the "information" out there is speculative once you leave the established, proven ruts.

I don't have time to elaborate, I'm in the middle of a chambering job, but a search should turn up reams of info.......I've typed hundreds of hours on the subject of matching sizing dies to chambers. I once documented my saga of designing my version of the 6X47L BEFORE THE 6.5X47 CASES WERE MANUFACTURED BY LAPUA, successfully. Dozens of pages, with pixtures....

As regards having the reamers made, I'm completely happy with David Kiff. I've had him make reamers to all sorts of goofy specs and he NAILS them. And they all cut great and right on size.....


for me

Another one I've had do some goofy stuff (stepped necks, incrementally taper die bodies, compound tapers et al) is Neil Jones. He's capable of repeatable stuff.

But the short answer is, as per the actual SPEC's......IMO you gotta do it yourself. Then be able to check the spec's, and use them accordingly. I tried multiple times to have stuff spec'd by others and the problems are many. Both in spec'ing and in implementation of these spec's. For instance, I've a 300WSM combination spec'd such that the shoulder is tapered 1* steeper (36* for a 35* shoulder) the shoulder diameter is set to .0015 under and the base set at .0025 under and I sent this combination off to several gunsmith's and had mixed results. It wasn't until I learned to size chambers MYSELF that the combination really began to work. In other words even if PTG makes perfect stuff that DOES NOT mean it automatically makes perfect fittages. But IME, if you send them proper spec's they'll make usable reamers.

You describe a chambering and I'll tell you how I would spec it.....right, wrong or indifferent I ain't secretive about my methods. This IS how I would spend my money...

I just PLEAD with people to please TRY STUFF before spouting off on the innertube cuz I've spent a whole truckload of money on speculation and wildass guesses in my time....

(And I've been guilty of sending people off on the wrong track too. Mainly from passing on information without actually DOING IT.... so if I opine, it WILL BE on something I've actually DONE )

I once tried to start a fire by rubbing sticks together because Bradford Angier wrote about it and it was in 50 different "Survival Manuals". And "everybody knows"....ask me how that went sometime

LOL

 

[SGS]

Not everybody has suitable tools to measure a size die. I use special bore micrometers usually called "Intramikes". You need the die diameter at the base and at the junction of the body and the shoulder. If you spec. your reamer .003 larger you will be in good shape. Some go a little smaller at the junction of the body and shoulder because the brass is usually a little softer in that area.

Sorry to highjack your thread, I assume you meant Alinwa when you said Big Al, and he will probably weigh in when he sees your post.

Late note: Well of course Al was typing at the same time I was!

 

[Boyd Allen]

You guys are working way too hard If you can get your hands on some fired brass for the cartridge that you are ordering a reamer for, preferably well used and work hardened, size it with your die, measure the sized case(s), decide what clearances you want and where, and fill out the die order form. Or you can make up a dummy round with one of the fired cases (the largest of the bunch) with the bullet of your choice seated to a depth that you want to have touch the rifling, and send it to your die maker with instructions as to the clearances that you want. I have even used one piece dies so that they have .001 neck tension with the expander (no harm to concentricity) and .001 without. Of course this necessitated a tight chamber neck that required turning case necks. I have ordered a half dozen reamers this way for bushing and one piece dies. The brass from the one piece dies is very straight in this application. By working from sized brass, you do not have to guess about spring back.

 

[CMaier]

( THANKS TO ALL who have replied do far.
AL i have no guns to make in the near future,
still paying for the mk13 300 win mag[see factory rifles],
if i decide to build again i will seek you out.)

 

[mwezell]

You guys are working way too hard If you can get your hands on some fired brass for the cartridge that you are ordering a reamer for, preferably well used and work hardened, size it with your die, measure the sized case(s), decide what clearances you want and where, and fill out the die order form. Or you can make up a dummy round with one of the fired cases (the largest of the bunch) with the bullet of your choice seated to a depth that you want to have touch the rifling, and send it to your die maker with instructions as to the clearances that you want. I have even used one piece dies so that they have .001 neck tension with the expander (no harm to concentricity) and .001 without. Of course this necessitated a tight chamber neck that required turning case necks. I have ordered a half dozen reamers this way for bushing and one piece dies. The brass from the one piece dies is very straight in this application. By working from sized brass, you do not have to guess about spring back.

Both ways work, Boyd. Personally, I don't think there is an easier way than calling Dave, asking if he knows the resize reamers specs that, lets say, Redding uses for a particular parent case. He always says "yes"...I then ask for a chamber reamer .003" bigger than that, and he does it. That's it!

It's been a while. since I had to ask him that specific question because, like the reamer I spoke to him about earlier this week, I already had a chamber reamer print for the parent case that I know works well. So, I just had him run the numbers for a .269 neck version of the same case/ reamer print, to be used with 68-80 grain 6mm bullets. In this instance, it's a 6 Grendel. I had already gone down the path of figuring out what body dimensions that I needed in order for it to work well with off the shelf 6.5 Grendel Type s full bushing dies. I started doing it like this in 2006 or 2007, when I made my first 30 Major, based off of the Grendel case. So, in this case, all I needed was neck and freebore dimensions.

Using this method, I'm already tooled up with sizing dies that I'm confident will work extremely well using the same die for basically any case that uses the Grendel case as it's parent, by just changing bushings. There is no need for a separate custom die for each. I can use a single off the shelf die for my custom chambers that purposely work with that die. With careful chambering work, I don't even have to adjust the lock ring on the same die. In the long and short run, it's cheaper than buying custom dies and I simply couldn't ask for dies that work any better and brass that lives any longer...particularly at the pressures I'm running the 30 Major at with n120 powder. Al, expects 50 firings as a minimum. I only ask for about 50 firings as a maximum. After that many, I figure I got my money's worth from the brass, anyway.

I'm a believer. It's more simple, less expensive, only need to change bushings to use 1 die for numerous calibers done on the same case...and it just makes sense.

We could split hairs about virgin brass size and how it fits the chamber, but it fits nicely and it's working or primer pockets wouldn't last, and it's only virgin for one firing. Honestly, I don't know why anyone buys custom dies over this method. Yes, I can do my own work, but if I couldn't, I'd buy the reamers ask my smith to do it this way.

p.s.--The one thing I left out is that the 6.5 Grendel bushing die needs the bushing shelf opened with carbide if necking up. Depending upon neck thickness, a 7mm Grendel can work without opening it up but a no-turn, or anything larger, needs it. I use a carbide chucking reamer for this.