Best caliber for 600 m benchrest ????

K

kaleviy

Guest
Hello everybody

I am a finnish benchrest shooter. Mostly I am shooting 100 and 200 m competitions with my Kelbly Stolle Panda and a finnish made JO-KI ( gunsmith and benchrest shooter Jouko Kinnunen, Äänekoski, Finland ). Now I am investigating the best suitable caliber for 600 m distance. I have the idea, that I have to shoot the heaviest possible bullet in the highest possible speed. So, one possible caliber is 30 - 378 weatherby magnum. I have calculated with my german made quickload/quicktarget ballistic program, that I can gain 1000 m/sec speed with Lapua 185 grs ( 12 g ) Scenar.

I know. that american benchrest shooters have investigated nearly every possible caliber etc. alternatives for long distance benchrest shooting. What do you think of my 30 - 378 weatherby magnum possibility ? If it is not a good idea, can somebody give good tips for other calibers, powders ( quantity and quality , barrel gain ) etc.

I would be very grateful for any good ideas.

Kalevi Ylisirniö
Mäntsälä
Finland
email: kalevi.ylisirnio@pp.inet.fi
 
600 yards

In my opinion 30-378 is very much an overkill shooting at 600 yards. I think it would not be better than a 6PPC with 68gr bullets at the other end of the extreme. In good condition the 6PPC might win while in a hurricane 30-378 would have the edge. Something there in between would be a good chice.

My choice would be between 6mm 1:8 or 6,5mm 1:8 shooting shooting 90-115gr bullets from the 6mm and 120-142 gr bullets from the 6,5mm. The volume of the case I would think of would be in the 6BR range to 6,5x47 Lapua.

I had 6,5-06 Improoved which I intended for shooting intermediate range 400-700 yards on target and varmint but was disappointed with it (It was on a custom rig) To get something near desired accuracy I had to load the 142 gr bullet around 2900 fps and that is only slightly faster than can be obtained from 6,5-47 Lapua. Besides that I was not able to load it any faster than 3100 fps if I wanted the brass to last any.

If you are fixed on .30 cal I would consider the plain old .308, its an excellent 600 yard cartridge holding about 50 gr powder versus 120 gr for the .30-378
If your goal was 1000 yard shooting it would be somwhat different even if 30-378 was still to large at that distance. I wouldnt expect barrel life more than 500-1000 rounds at best.

BA
 
More than a few American shooters are using 6BR or its improved variations - such as the 6 Dasher - at 1000yds. with notable success. I doubt there's any more suitable cartridge(s) for 600yds/600m than these. Not only is their accuracy top-notch, but barrel life is excellent, recoil is nearly non-existent (especially in rifles of BR weight), and since they're so efficient, the expense of reloading is considerably less than that of larger cartridges. Another point in the BR's favor is the availability of a large number of excellent 6mm bullets for long range shooting.
 
6.5X47 Lapua.

Or if you really want the big thunder, a 30X.338 Lapua.

Say NO to belted magnums IMO.

al
 
Hi Kaleviy, Any of the cartridges that do well consistantly at 1000yds will also do well at 600 IMO.At our range we shoot the exact same guns at both distances on the same range and the smallest groups at either distance have been shot with the larger 30 cals ,not the 6BRs.. This may have to do with the weather conditions on offer where you shoot also..JR.. Jeff Rogers
 
kaleviy said:
Hello everybody

I am a finnish benchrest shooter. Mostly I am shooting 100 and 200 m competitions with my Kelbly Stolle Panda and a finnish made JO-KI ( gunsmith and benchrest shooter Jouko Kinnunen, Äänekoski, Finland ). Now I am investigating the best suitable caliber for 600 m distance. I have the idea, that I have to shoot the heaviest possible bullet in the highest possible speed.
Click to expand...

I think what you want is the most accurate caliber, regardless. Unless you like recoil and more work crafting handloads, I would suggest you start with the excellent 6BR, and see what happens. :)
 
The 6mm cartridges are so much more "bag friendly" than the big 30 calibers. The 105 +/- grain bullets have very good BCs and win many 600/1000 yard matches in the US.
Many of the shooters that currently shoot the smaller capacity 6mm cartridges formerly shot 30 calibers with the capacity of the 404 Jeffrey Imp. case necked down to 30 cal. This is about the same as the 300 Weatherby Mag but without a belt.
6.5 X 47 or the 6-6.5 X 47 (wildcat) would be great choices. Brass and bullets from Lapua shoud be easy for you to obtain.

Jay, Idaho
 
Kalevi,

A 6BR or 6BR imp holds all the records, but one in 600 yds IBS Benchrest. You don't see many of the big 30's do very well.

Mark Schronce
 
I feel good!

You guys make me feel good. I just got my 308 rebarreled to 6BR.

But, I still have a 30-338 Win Mag for the tornado's.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think to ask the "best caliber" is to ask the wrong question. Bear with me.

In the early days of short range benchrest, the two dominant calibers were the .22 and the .30. The .308 was considered an accuracy round in group shooting, perhaps more used in unlimited-type rifles -- Though as I remember reading, Donnalee (then) Stekl held several records with a .308 in lighter rifles.

Anyway, the reason was bullets. There were good .22s and good .30s in the early days, the 6mms not quite so good. That changed, of course.

And today in short range benchrest, the .30 BR is making a good showing, beginning to win in group shoots. All it took was the reemergence of good .30 bullets, appropriate for the short range game.

A similar pattern is going on in long range benchrest, though I do question whether 600 yards is "long range."

Except for the experience of the people at Pennsylvania, 1,000 yard benchrest has only been going on since 1995. 600 yard benchrest even less. It is early days yet; what dominates is in many ways only "this years fancy."

At 1,000 yards, the .30s win more today -- due in large part, I am sure, because more people shoot them. The 6 and 6.5mms do win, just not as much. But fewer people shoot them, and good, consistent bullets are a newer phenomena.

So if the 6mms are currently the hot rifle at 600 yards, Id' say there is nothing wrong with a .30. I believe the current IBS HG record is held by a .308.

But in general, what will not change is that good barrels win matches, and what wins most is good bullets in good barrels. Whatever distance.

Certain choices compromise you a bit; there aren't many (any?) custom .22s suitable for 600 and 1,000 yard benchrest. And there are few (no?) custom .338 bullets; pulling the handle on a point-up die for a .338 would be a bit much. Maybe the hydraulic-assist presses will turn out good 338 bullets, maybe one of the mid-size manufacturers will start to, but right now, those consistently winning with .338s are working them over, re-pointing them or adding tips, and of course, sorting.

So if you're shooting in Finland, what long-range, or at least, mid-range bullets can you get that are of benchrest quality? That should determine the caliber you choose.
 
I'd go one of two ways, either a 7 or 8 twist 6BR with 105-108 grain boolits or a fast twist tube with a 243 AI with 115 dtac boolits.

Dan
 
Kaleviy,

"Cartridge Selection--Why the 6BR for
Across the Course (XTC) Competition?
We asked Gary why he chose the 6mm BR for his R5 rifle. First he noted: "There's not much point in engineering a new rifle to shoot the .223 Rem--you can shoot that from an AR15 platform, and I think some kind of 6mm is a much better choice for Highpower and XTC anyway." Gary explained: "I chose the 6BR cartridge for many reasons. First is its extraordinary accuracy--those who know this cartridge know what I mean, and those who try it for the first time are quickly converted. Half-moa (or better) is almost a certainty with this cartridge if you have a decent barrel. But for Highpower competition this cartridge offers other very important benefits such as the ability to propel high-BC 6mm bullets at good velocity, outstanding barrel life, low recoil, good availability of high-quality brass at reasonable price, and a cartridge that's easy to load for and not finicky. I don't think there's another XTC cartridge that can boast all of those qualities. Sure some bigger cases may offer a more velocity, but there's usually a trade-off. You will give up useful barrel life, or you may have to spend time forming brass from other parent cases. I've explored most of the popular XTC cartridges. On balance I think the 6BR is close to perfection in achieving all the necessary qualities you want in an XTC cartridge. The only major argument against the 6BR cartrridge for XTC was that it was hard to feed from a magazine. Well, with the R5, and our new single-stack magazine design, that issue is a thing of the past." Check out the photo to see the magazine and how it works."

Here is the whole article: :D


http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek074.html

gt40
 
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