Berger 6.5mm 140gr Hybrid test

M

Miche Gallagher

Guest
Hi everyone! We are looking for people to test our new 6.5mm 140 gr. Hybrid bullets. These bullets were designed to shoot in an 8” or faster twist barrel. We need people who will be able to complete the testing by Jan 24th. We are very sorry, but due to shipping and customs restrictions, we will only be able to include people within the continental US on the initial test. If you are interested, please send me an email at michelle.gallagher@bergerbullets.com with the following information:

-Name, contact and shipping information.
-Type of rifle you will use to test these bullets.
-Type of test you plan to conduct.
-Forum you found this on.

We are looking for a variety of testing methods, so feel free to test them however you would normally test a new component. Those who are selected will be shipped 1 box each of our new 6.5mm 140 gr. Hybrid bullets right away. We need you to report your results to us by Jan 24th. Those who provide their results by then will receive another 3 boxes (300 bullets) of any Berger Bullets you choose as a Thank-You from us for your time and effort.

We encourage those who are selected to report their findings on this forum for the sake of others who are interested in the results (good or bad), and we will likely post any results that are not already shown. This testing program will be a regular part of our process, so keep an eye out for other opportunities down the road. Thank you all, and please let us know if you have any questions!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!

Warm Regards,
Michelle
 
Michelle, I would love to test some of those for you. email on the way.

thx and Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you and yours

Joe
 
We receive a lot of feedback on the way we conduct our bullet testing, and we are listening to that feedback. As you all know, we’ve been doing these bullet tests for several years now. When we started the testing, we decided to limit the number of testers to 10 per test. This number was selected because we didn’t think that 15 people would respond to our announcements (given the time constraints). We never dreamed that we would receive the large number of submissions we are getting these days. Some of our latest tests have drawn in over 150 submissions. When we only have 10 boxes of bullets to send out, it means a lot of people are not going to be included.

This situation has resulted in some hard feelings from those who believe that they are worthy of being a tester but are not selected. The truth is nearly all those who send in a submission are capable, but there are only 10 spots. It doesn’t take long to understand why many capable shooters are being left out of this program. It was never our intention for this program to be regarded as a measure of a given shooter’s worth by judging each submission against the others.

This program is designed to achieve two goals. The first and primary goal is to provide us with quality feedback on our new bullets from several (10) different rifles and shooters before they are officially launched to the public. The other goal was to provide a means for these results to be shared publicly, which is why we went to the forums to find these shooters. Until this test, we only encouraged shooters to post their reports. As we’ve already relayed, for this and future tests, we will make sure to post the results on the forum which the tester lists. This will ensure that the data is available for everyone.

Given the importance of this program and the feedback from many shooters, we are modifying our program further. For starters, we are going to increase the amount of bullets available for testing. For this specific 6.5mm test, we are going to add an additional 20 shooters from the group of emails we have already received. Please note that we are not asking for more submissions, as we have already received more than we need. These additional 20 shooters will receive 2 additional boxes of bullets as a demonstration of our appreciation after they report their results (it is very important to note that the report must be received on or before the deadline to get the additional bullets). This program is both important and expensive. We must reduce the number of “Thank You” bullets from 3 to 2 so that the cost to run this program does not end the program. Those who were selected as the original 10 will still get 3 boxes, as this was our original agreement.

To get as many different shooters involved as possible, we are also going to limit participation to one test, per shooter, per year. We purposely want to include as many shooters as we can. Since the number of responses is so high, I am confident that we will have enough shooters to handle all the tests (we are expecting to introduce between 10 and 15 new bullets in 2012, so there will be many opportunities). As a part of this specific item, we will be closely tracking all those who submit to be part of these tests. This will allow us to identify anyone who has made multiple submissions but has not yet been picked for a test. We don’t want anyone who is eager to part of this program to go to long without being included.

Another change to the program is that we are working on a means to include shooters outside the US. We have been exploring a number of ways to get these bullets to shooters in other countries. We haven’t worked all the bugs out yet, but we are making steady progress and the outlook is positive.

Thank you all for your patience and support while we grow this program. Have a great week, and Happy New Year!

Thanks,
Michelle
 
Michelle,

Even tho I gave you a hard time at Lodi about missing out on a prior test opportunity, it was all in jest and I cannot imagine anyone being to fired up/torqued off about not being included. But I have been known to be somewhat naive about others actions/reactions.

Regardless, my point is to say thanks to you and Berger just for the "opportunity to try" and be one of the "Tester's". Still great odds 10:150 vs wasting money on the Powerball!! Thank you for the great job you do and running the beta tests/interfacing with the shooting public.

Happy New Year..

Rod Vigstol in Fargo!!
 
Evaluation for the Berger .264 140 grain Hybrid bullets. Bullets were weighed on an analytical balance and verified on another analytical balance.

Weight
139.82 1
139.84 1
139.86 1
139.88 0
139.90 2
139.92 2
139.94 4
139.96 5
139.98 8
140.00 9
140.02 12
140.04 11
140.06 8
140.08 5
140.10 17
140.12 5
140.14 1
140.16 2
140.18 5
140.20 1

Range 0.38 grains
SD 0.076

OAL
1.418 2
1.419 2
1.421 2
1.422 9
1.423 6
1.424 11
1.425 12
1.426 5
1.427 11
1.428 7
1.429 11
1.43 5
1.431 6
1.432 5
1.433 1
1.434 5

Range 0.016”
SD 0.00378

The longest bullet measurements generally had the most jagged meplats so I think meplat trimming would greatly help the bullets, even without pointing them.

Base to ogive numbers are variation from the median value since my actual numbers wouldn’t mean anything to you.

Base to Ogive
-0.001 32
0 55
0.001 13

Since base to ogive measurements are pretty consistent most variation is from tip to ogive and I believe can be mostly attributed to the jagged shape of the meplat.

Bearing surface varied by less than .001”


I tested the bullets in a DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor at 600 yards after doing load development.
The bullets measured an average of .055” longer from tip to ogive than the 140gr Amax bullets that the rifle normally digests.
I was hoping that because of the hybrid design the bullets would shoot well with the jump. Unfortunately with the bullet jump came an increase in velocity variability which showed up as vertical on the target. During load development I had 6 shots in under .25” at 200 yards, as you can see that didn’t hold up at 600.

5 shot group sizes at 600 yards were:
6.632
7.004
6.741
10.358

agg 7.684

Large group sizes could mainly be attributed to vertical.
Bullets used in testing were sorted to have, close as possible, the same a.o.l., bearing surface, and base to ogive length.

After shooting the above groups I tried the standard 140 A-max load and shot a 5.464” group with 1 ¾” vertical. That would seem to support velocity variance being the reason for the larger groups with the Hybrids.

I did shoot through a chronograph but didn’t bring one that recorded the shots and didn’t take time to write them down because I didn’t want to add more variability in the group sizes by the additional wait time. Glancing at the chrono numbers between shots on the sighters it was obvious the slower ones were dropping lower as one would expect. Observed velocities varied from 2620 to 2710.

Based on my testing I believe that given a barrel properly throated for these bullets they should shoot quite well, particularly if one were to take time to meplat trim them.. When I get time I plan to try them in a 6.5 Creedmoor heavy gun as well.

James
 
Thanks for posting your results James! There were a couple others that didn't get posted, so I'm going to include them so you can all read them. Here's the first one:

Objective: Evaluate Box of 100 Berger bullets for multi-function use.

Subject Bullets: Berger Hybrid Target 6.5 MM 140 grain Bullets PN 26414 Lot #3556 BC 0.618 & 0.317.

Summary Results: General performance and POI precision of these bullets are equal to shooters expectations
based on experience with similar VLD Berger 6.5 MM 140 grain bullets. Over all precision with the Hybrid
bullets PN 26414 were slightly better that Berger PN 26406. Both of the Berger bullets tested performed
slightly better than the JLK low drag bullets in two heavy match barrels shot at 100 yards.

With the Very Low Drag bullets POI accuracy at 100 yards is often less than expected as the bullet exits the
muzzle with less than a true coaxial spin. This bullet wobble also give rise to more than expected wind drift.
Generally the higher the muzzle pressure (I.e. the shorter the barrel) and the more aggressive the bullets boat tail
the more the bullet is prone to initial bullet wobble. Considering the longer boat tail these 140 grain Hybrid
Target bullets shot better than expected at 100 yards. With a long barrel and selected powder loads groups
under ¼” at 100 yards were common.

While not tested based on my experience with other similar Berger bullets these new “Hybrid” bullets should
perform excellent at 1,000 yards. I found the manufacturing tolerances on these bullets to be equal to or better
than prior 140 gr 6.5 VLD Berger Match bullets.

Methods: The bullets were carefully loaded for firing in several rifles. Powder charges were based on shooters
specific prior experience with loads for similar Berger 140 grain bullets for each of the barrels tested. All
loading and shooting observations and measurements were recorded. (Loads were not tuned to barrel
harmonics.)

All observations and measurements were made by, or under the supervision, of Jon Newman who is a
knowledgeable Engineer; with extensive experience in building and shooting precision rifles. Experience
included over 55 years direct rifle experience. Jon is also an NRA Chief Range Safety Office and an NRA Rifle
Instructor.

The sample lot of 100 bullets for evaluation was received January 12th and the report to Berger being due on
January 24 limited the scope of shooting and evaluation that was practical. The tests were time limited and
were based on applications similar to those of typical buyers of these bullets. Bullets were all shot “out of the
box” with no sorting. These bullets are near ideal for 1,000 yard matches. However, time and range limitations
did not allow for the longer range testing.

100 yard shooting was done at the private 100 yard bench rest range at Indian Hammock, Fort Drum, Florida.
Competition Bench rest front and rear rests were used on concrete shooting tables. Shooters are all experienced
bench rest shooters.

Powder charge load precision was -0.05 gr to +0.1. The nominal load used for testing was 51 grains of Hodgon
H4832SC. Powder charges were thrown via the RCBS 1500 Charge Master electronic dispenser and checked
on more precision scales. Lapua brass was used for all shooting. Cases were neck sized only. Bullets were
seated using Redding Competition Dies. Bullets were seated lightly into the lands of the barrel. Bullet seating
depth as measured at the bullet diameter of 0.259 was held within +/-0.001”. (At short ranges the bullet
position relative to the barrel lands has proven to be more critical than the powder charge used in the barrels
being tested.) Unless other wise noted all groups are 5 shot groups.

Results:
1/13/12 Rifle: Custom Savage Model 16 with Leupold 36 D scope and 1# Sharpshooter trigger in custom
carbon fiber stock. Barrel 27.5” Krieger 4 grove, heavy varmint contour chambered 6.5-284. Prior to this test
barrel had been fired 308 rounds and would usually shoot the Berger Bullet 26406 Lot 2399 BC .559 @ 2900
fps over 51 grains of H 4831 into groups of 3/8 @ 100 yards.

Wind conditions were 10 mph or less from 5:00. Density Altitude varied from 515 to 555 feet. Temperature
varied from 61 to 67 degrees. Mirage was more of an issue than the wind.

The Berger Bullet PN 26406 were fired to adjust the scope and as a standard for reference. These bullets @
about 2,900 fps (Today they clocked 2,910 to 2,968 Fps) in the past have grouped about 3/8” under range
conditions. The test group today was 0.42”. These bullets were loaded 9/11/10.

The test bullets, Berger Bullet 26414 Lot 3556 BC .618 with 0.1 grains less powder were slightly faster (3,005
to 3,018 fps About 60 fps.) out of the same barrel as the reference bullets. This was not expected. The test
bullet groups were 0.383”. Slight better than the reference bullets. Mirage was more of an issue than the wind.
1/14/12 Rifle: Custom Savage Model 16. See above. Wind conditions were 5 mph or less from 5:00. Density
Altitude varied from -144 to -377 feet. Temperature varied from 58 to 61 degrees. No mirage. The wind was
not an issue.

The Berger Bullet PN 26406 fired as a standard for reference grouped 0.40”. The test bullets, PN 26414, did
better grouping as low as 0.25” and always under 0.38”.

1/15/12 Rifle: Custom Long Range Rifle: Siller Predator action with Burris 8-32X50 Black Diamond scope
and Jewel trigger in custom laminated wood stock. Barrel 30” Bartlien 4 grove heavy varmint contour
chambered 6.5-284 with Harrell’s muzzle brake. Prior to this test barrel had been fired 346 rounds and would
usually shoot the Berger Bullet 26406 Lot 2399 BC .559 @ 2900 fps over 51+ grains of H 4831 into bug hole
groups @ 100 yards.

The test bullets, Berger Bullet 26414 Lot 3556 BC .618 with 51.0 grains of H4831SC clocked 2,994 to 3,008
fps. The test bullet groups were 0.25” to 0.50. Typical group had three or four bullets into one very small bug
hole with one or to slipping out to open the group to 0.50”. The reference bullets shot similar groups. The
Burris 8-32X50 Black Diamond scope’s ability to hold Point of Aim, POI, is suspect for the shots that were
outside of the bug hole.

Future shooting will be done with a Nightforce NXS 12-42 Scope with the NP-R2 Reticule.
1/20/12 Rifle: Custom Long Range Rifle: Siller Predator action, Bartlien 6.5-284 barrel with Nightforce NXS

12-42 Scope. The conditions were light wind, no mirage, 73 degrees and DA @ 800 feet. The Berger Bullet
26406 were fired to adjust the scope and as a standard for reference. These bullets are running @ about 3,000
fps. The initial group of the #26406 shot a 3 shot group of 0.163 after the new scope was zeroed. The new
Hybrid bullets shot 0.338 and .801 horizontal groups. Both groups had a very tight three shot group with 2
flyers. The final group shot with the #26406 bullets were 0.508 horizontal.

1/21/12 Rifle: Custom Rem 700 LA with Leupold 6.5-20X40 Scope. Barrel 30” Shilen light varmint contour
chambered 6.5-284 with muzzle brake. The conditions were 5->15 mph wind from 12 O clock, no mirage, 73
degrees and DA @ 800 feet. The 140 JLK grouped 0.609. The Berger Hybrid bullets grouped 0.675 in a
vertical string.

1/21/12 Rifle: Custom Long Range Rifle: Siller Predator action, Bartlien 6.5-284 barrel with Nightforce NXS
12-42 Scope. The 140 JLK grouped 0.617. The Berger Hybrid bullets grouped 0.309. The Berger #25406
bullets grouped 0.575.

Switching the scope did not improve bullet precision.
1/22/12 Rifle: Custom Long Range Rifle: Siller Predator action, Bartlien 6.5-284 barrel with Nightforce NXS

12-42 Scope. Continued group shooting at 100 yards. The conditions were 0->5 mph wind from 12 O clock, no
mirage, 74 degrees and DA @ 890 feet. The Berger Hybrid bullets grouped about 0.30 several times.

Results & Conclusions:
Savage Model 16 with Krieger 27.5” 1-8 twist barrel: The new Berger Hybrid Target 6.5 MM 140 grain Bullets
PN 26414 shoot equal or better than the Berger PN 26406 bullets at 100 yards.
Custom Long Range Rifle: Siller Predator action with Burris 8-32X50 Black Diamond scope or the 12-42
Nightforce and Jewel trigger in custom laminated wood stock. Barrel 30” Bartlien 4 grove 1-8 twist heavy
varmint contour: The new Berger Hybrid Target 6.5 MM 140 grain Bullets PN 26414 shoot equal or better than
the Berger PN 26406 bullets at 100 yards.

Comment regarding bullet seating: The Redding Competition setting die’s bullet seating pin contacts the 140 gr
Berger bullets at a diameter that is about 0.214” which is about 0.3” or more forward of the point on the bullet
than the diameter of about 0.259 where the bullet comes into contact with the lands. If there is any variation
between the point taper bullet to bullet the result is a variation of the seating depth of the bullets relative to the
lands, which is critical in both short and long range shooting. As it is very difficult to sort bullets to eliminate
this common variation for this test after the bullets were seated each bullet was measure measured from the
head of the Lapua case to a diameter close to the lands diameter. For this bullet test each bullet was measured
referenced to a diameter of 0.259”. These measurement clearly showed that the points on the new PN 264414
Hybrid bullets were much more consistence than the Berger PN 26414 bullets used as a test reference. The
Hybrid bullets were more consistence that the JLK bullets also used in this test.

Disclaimer:
The above report is based on a brief test with a limited number of shots fired short range
 
Here's another report:


First of all I want to thank you for choosing me for your test program for the 140 grain Hybrids. It’s great to see a bullet manufacturer let shooters do real world tests on their new products. I just wish I had some better results to give you.

First a little history. I shot in a 600 yard BR shoot last weekend in factory class shooting your 6mm 105 VLD’s and had a 20 shot 3.1745” Aggregate with a score of 181/200 which won the factory class running away. I have also had a lot of success with your 6 mm 108 grain bullets in 6BR shooting just a little under 2”, 5 shot groups, at 600 yards. Needless to say, I’m a big Berger fan. That’s why I was very excited to try your 140 grain Hybrids.

To start my final test today, I warmed up the barrel with some 139 Cor-Bon’s that I had lying around so I could save the hybrids for the test. Once I warmed up the barrel, I shot a 5 shot group with the Cor-Bons at 300 yards that measured 1.406”, and backed it up with another 5 shot group of 1.581”.

Then came the bad news. The best 3 shot group that I could get out of the Hybrids at 300 yards was 3.140” The next best groups were 3.388”, and 3.971” shooting H4350. This might be ok for a hunting load, but it leaves a lot to be desired for BR. I tried H4350, 4831, and even tried a few loads of Varget, but nothing seemed to shoot well out of my gun which is using an 8 twist, 28” CBI barrel.. I have about 10 bullets left out of the 100 that you sent me, so I think I gave the bullets a fair shake. The results I posted are from today. My other two trips to the range produced best groups that averaged around 5” at 300 yards.

So, once again I want to thank you for choosing me for your test program. Hopefully I can get some load data from some of the other posts that will shoot better in my gun. I’m not giving up on them yet.
 
And another report:


I just got in from shooting the new 6.5 Hybrid bullets at 520 yards (the longest distance available to me). The combination of the bullets not getting here until only a couple weeks remained before the deadline and my work schedule and weather limited me to some degree, but I was still able to determine that your new bullets shoot great.

I shot the bullets in a basic 600 yard long range rifle composed of a Remington short action bedded in a Shehane laminated stock, Jewel trigger, Broughton 5R barrel with muzzle brake and 10-50x56 Sightron scope.

I started out at 300 yards and wasn’t overly impressed, but I think it had something to do with the way I was holding the rifle. While shooting at 300, I found out the rifle likes to be held and shouldered. This helped immensely at 520 yards. I loaded 50 rounds with Hodgdon 4831SC powder, Federal Gold Medal Match primers in Lapua brass. I seated ten bullets .075 off of a hard jam, and the other 40 were seated firmly into the lands, close to jam. I’ve had a good bit of experience with this rifle, so I knew where to start on the powder. Wind was light, temp was about 63 degrees and humidity was high.

I loaded the bullets as follows:

3-shot 300-yard grps averaged 4-shot 520-yard grp

10 cases with 51.5 grs and off the lands at .075. 1.302 2.005

10 cases with 51.5 grs near jam. 1.317 2.284

10 cases with 52 grs near jam. 1.384 1.550

10 cases with 52.5 grs near jam. 1.678 1.872

10 cases with 53 grs near jam. 2.789 2.744

Obviously, the 53 grain load is too hot, but when you average the four 51.5 to 52.5 grain loads I shot at 520 yards, you get a 1.927 average. Based on what I see at our monthly matches, that will win about ten months a year. Also of note is the fact that the the 2.284 inch group had three shots in the group that only measured .575.

I think with just a little more work on seating depth things will tighten up a good bit more.
 
Back
Top