Bedding 700's and Their Like

Zebra13

Member
Gents,

I'm curious. Is there any reason why one should bed the entire action length on a 700 or it's clones (other than aesthetics) as opposed to just bedding the tang and front screw/recoil lug areas? I.e., the center portion of the action is floating.

I just bedded a long action 700 for it's full length. And after a bit of time in the mill removing the overflow, it sho' do look clean and neat. But, I can't see any reason why a "two point" bedding of a 700 would hurt anything from a functional or accuracy standpoint.

Am I wrong?

Thanks,
Justin
 
ever notice that chrankshafts with more bearings flex less ??
all that unsupported area can allow twist/torquing.
if there were no "reactions" to pulling a trigger, well sure 2 point bedding would be fine.
just my 2 cents worth

mike in co
 
I believe that the conventional wisdom of bedding only the front and rear of actions goes back well before the introduction of glass and/or epoxy bedding compounds. Back in those days (not really that long ago by my reckoning) a stock was hand bedded using the wood only and it was a rare stockmaker that could get a perfect contact from front to rear. When the epoxies came onto the market they were supposed to provide for complete contact but many stockmakers stuck to their old ways.

Does it make any difference? In a hunting rifle, probably not. But there is a reason most Benchrest rifles are glued in or full length bedded.

Dang it! Did I just agree with Mike? That's twice this year.

JMHO

Ray
 
Mike,

I don't notice crankshafts...at all. Not an engine guy. But I get what your saying.

What would reduce the torqueing and twisting in a full length bed job? Increased action surface to bedding contact?

I can see how on a vertical plane, a full lenth bed job would be able to reduce downward flex in the middle of the action caused by barrel whip. I don't see it reducing flex upwards.

Ray,

Makes sense to me. Armed with a chisel and scraper, inletting two small areas to Zip Point Sh!t (ZPS) would certainly be easier than inletting a big one to ZPS.

Justin
 
yes....the lenght of the bedding adds stiffness to the stock. the open gap in 2 point would allow a twist to potentially influence the rifle.
all minor influences..but it all counts in br.

just an opinion.....

mike( i will not tell a soul ray)
 
I've been working with some heavy rifles, repeaters using aftermarket bottom metal/magazine systems.

-I started with two-point bedding, no joy.....side-to-side, wide horizontal groups.
-I roughed up, degreased and permanently glued in mag boxes, limited joy....... Good shoots with light bullets, horizontal w/heavies.
-I added weight out front.... WOOOOOAAHHHHH!!!..... even wider groups.
-I added 5/16" steel tensioners down both sides, NEARLY joy, down to 1/2" wide.
-I bedded full length from tang to end of barrel shank, joy.

al
 
justin,
i know a guy that TEACHES gunsmithing that does 2 point bedding. it may work fine in a hunting application, but my 300 win mag 1000yd gun on a rem 700 action is bedded the same as al described. low .3's at 200 yds.....
mike in co
 
Try this as an explanation: When you hang a heavy barrel on a 700 -- or any magazine cutout action -- the action itself can flex a bit simply from the weight of the barrel.

Now, if you put something between the barrel and stock to position things when bedding, it makes alignment easier. But when you take that "something" out, the action may flex, and you've just introduced some stress in the bedding. If you've only bedded two points -- where the screws are -- that's the least change when the full weight of the barrel is absorbed by the action.

On the other hand, if you do a perfect full-length job, and have let the barreled action assume it's normal, finished position in the stock when bedding, you likely have a better job, particularly with a heavier or longer barrel.

No proof, just a thought.
 
Is not pillar bedding a 2 point bedding system?

I should have been more clear, John. I do the 700's with pillars. There is no contact between the reciever and stock from the rear of the reciever ring to the front of the tang. I like about .015 clearance between the sides of the reciever and the stock.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Is not pillar bedding a 2 point bedding system?

Pillars are used to keep the wood from compressing as the screws are tightened. They are not intended to act as bedding points. It's customary to apply a coat of glass bedding over the pillars so there is no contact between them and the action. Many pillared stocks are full-length bedded.
 
i'll admit i have heard pillar bedding done both ways, as the 2 points in a bedding less attachment, and as part of full length bedding.

mike in co
 
I have not bedded heavy recoiling rifles, but the varmint calibers that I have, responded well to what I call "bridge bedding", which is pretty much what Al described, except my earlier efforts were done before I was aware of pillar bedding. One more thing about pillars, in addition to keeping the stock from compressing, the higher action screw torque settings that they allow increase the unit loading in those areas that are bedded, increasing the friction between the action and the stock. It is my belief that it is this feature that improves accuracy over what a non pillared stock would give, if the action screw torque is limited to what the stock can handle without being compressed. Factory actions, particularly those with magazine cuts, lack bedding area, and the heavier the bullet, and larger the case, the bigger the problem. A long time back, a long time benchrest gunsmith, and competitor told me that there was no advantage to sleeving an action IF it was to be glued in. I never tried that on any of my rifles because I was not sure that I could do a good job of drilling the necessary trigger pin holes, but somewhere in my collection is a Gun Digest with an article by a fellow who did just that. He did had done various modifications to accurize a Remington Varmint Special in .222 and had tested to see the accuracy improvement after each change. The last thing that he did was glue it in, and that really tightened the groups to a level beyond what I would have expected. Some time back, Kelly McMillan gave me a complete and installed prototype EDGE benchrest stock, and gave me the option of whether to have his gunsmith pillar bed or glue the action to the stock. Knowing that an experienced smith (with a lot more tooling than I have) could undoubtedly do the job right, I chose to have it glued in. It went from a rifle that shot a lot of low 2's to one that has delivered in the teens. I should add that it is a 722 action that has had some work done to it, including sleeving the bolt, and it has a tight neck chambered Hart barrel in .222, a 2 oz. trigger, and 36X scope. No doubt, the shape of the stock makes a great contribution, but I think that the bedding is an important part of the improvement that was achieved. Becasue the barreled action was not originally put together to be glued, it has a recoil lug, and in that configuration I see no reason not to try a glue in on a heavy caliber, but for that application I would use a belt and suspenders, doing a full pillar bedding job (with the tops of the pillars covered) and then gluing and then tightening the action screws as if only pillared. The late Lee Six, thought this approach to be a good one for pure accuracy applications. I was surprised at his answer, when I asked a small group of top shooters about pillar vs. glue-in bedding and his reply was "both". As a competitor and stock builder he was in an excellent position to build and test any idea that he wanted to, so although surprised by his answer, I did not doubt its correctness.
 
ohh my......... my 1000 yd br rifle is in fact pillar and full length bedded........( i forgot all about the pillars as the stocker installed them....)

mike
 
Boyd, there are a number of name gunsmiths who would also answer "both." IIRC, the Houston Warehouse man felt you could get a bit of fine tuning with a "both" by adjusting the screw tension, even though the action was also glued in.

RE drilling trigger pin holes: I sometimes have more brazen than brains, but for what its worth, have had no trouble drilling *satisfactory* trigger pin holes in the stock for a glue-in. I have a Winchester 52D I glued into one of the circa 1990 McMillian carbon fiber/fiberglass stocks that shoots better than the rimfire experts say possible for a man of my limited gunsmithing talents. It did require drilling trigger pin holes in the stock -- they wander just a bit, and are a bit wallowed, but everything works just fine.

Much of the improvement probably comes from the new Shilen barrel, but the rifle shoots far better than it did before, when it was only pillar bedded. In BR competition, it now stands at 2499 out of 2500.

Now, after you've brought it up, I wish I'd done a "both."
 
Article in RIFLE Magazine, July-August 1993

This article, Bedding the 40X Remington--Tricks of the Trade, was written by Norman E. Johnson.

Mr. Johnson advocated the full length bedding of the action-----much easier to do with the 40X than with the 700.

He also advocated having the action support the barrel while the epoxy under the action is curing----with the action screws gently snugging the action down into place.

I never tried his technique, primarily because I usually make a big mess working action screws through wet epoxy. I do wonder if I'm leaving a bit of accuracy on the table when I support the barrel on sacrificial pads and suspend the action in the wet epoxy.

I no longer have this magazine but the article might be worth looking at if you can find a copy.

A. Weldy
 
On my serious 40x's I float the tang after d&t'ing the 'front trigger guard screw' hole to 1/4-28. I started out messing with Savages where floating the tang is the norm. It just seems natural to me to use that big unmolested section of bedding as the main support.
 
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